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Thread: Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control

  1. #1
    "Certified" Alphaholic peteconway's Avatar
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    Default Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control

    Hi everyone - I meant to share this months ago and forgot all about it, its about one of the things that slow the response back to the List on a submit.

    The 2 minute video explains the benefit and the thing to avoid doing.

    Play Video


    Cheers.

    Pete
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
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    "Certified" Alphaholic iRadiate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control

    Cool Pete!

    Are you saying when you define the SQL query in the List property, there is a delay if 'that' query contains an ORDER BY clause?
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    "Certified" Alphaholic CharlesParker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control

    Actually, are you saying the refresh would take a long time? That would make sense because the reason it appears to be faster is that you have already brought the data in and are only sorting client side and then doing an incremental refresh on that row...if I saw that right. Are you sure it is the ORDER by clause?
    NWCOPRO: Nuisance Wildlife Control Software My Application: http://www.nwcopro.com "Without forgetting, we would have no memory at all...now what was I saying?"

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    Default Re: Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control

    Knowing what the List control does during a sync... and testing the posted theory... I can't agree. There are a ton of variables involved here... but... using a MySQL table of 830 rows, and looking at Network timing for List load and then List sync... the SQL ORDER BY is actually milliseconds faster.

    Pete, can you show more than just anecdotal evidence that the claims in your video are valid? I didn't see any comparison or timings.

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    "Certified" Alphaholic peteconway's Avatar
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    Default Re: Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control

    Let me tell you something.. anecdotal is it (definition - not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.) so it's my personal account - try it or don't.. words like evidence, claims etc. Are all over the top. This kind of response is why I really resist posting these days and I think many of the the names that used to post here may feel the same, this is a message board an area of contribution, not prosecution, contributors messages may or may not help some all or, what matters is the contribution.
    Pete
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
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    US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

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    Default Re: Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control

    Quote Originally Posted by peteconway View Post
    Let me tell you something.. anecdotal is it (definition - not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.) so it's my personal account - try it or don't.. words like evidence, claims etc. Are all over the top. This kind of response is why I really resist posting these days and I think many of the the names that used to post here may feel the same, this is a message board an area of contribution, not prosecution, contributors messages may or may not help some all or, what matters is the contribution.
    Pete
    well said.
    +1
    thanks for reading

    gandhi

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    Default Re: Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control - Just the facts - sir

    Pete, Im sorry. I really thought you would be more interested in finding out what is really going on, I am not knocking you in any way and appreciate the fact that you took the time to post, I consider this group more about getting to the facts of the how and why. I also think that right or wrong your post is beneficial to the whole.
    DO not take my post as a dig on your competency, in my eyes your my superior.

    With all that said, I still think your not seeing what you beleive you are and agree with david based on my limited experience with a row expander. A FULL REFRESH on a per row basis is what I think the order by clause is causing in some way which is why the incremental refresh on a single row while everything else is already client side is faster. Now I could be dead wrong, I am NOT an expert in anyway. While a row expander is NOT the same I think the issue is. Please do not hesitate to post as it helps us all. I have seen where adding a table in the sql query and using a group by clause to include the other table added a signifigant time increase while a view was much faster - point is there are often many things that can cause an issue and others that appear to "fix" while not actually being the cause of the bottle neck in the first place.

    Either way, don't take offense. Your a great guy and your contributions help others. Finding the answer as to WHY the thing is faster is way more important. If David is wrong, he would probably be really interested as to why, if you're wrong we will have all learned somthing. It's a good thing all around, and again please do not take offense at my comments.
    ~Cheers
    NWCOPRO: Nuisance Wildlife Control Software My Application: http://www.nwcopro.com "Without forgetting, we would have no memory at all...now what was I saying?"

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    Default Re: Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control

    But Pete... there's no evidence that what you posted is based in anything real. Your video only shows you updating a List. If you showed both methods with timings for support I would have said... yikes... let's look into this and figure out why. If you posted a couple of sample components showing the difference that would have been great.

    Let's think about anyone new getting into Alpha... and coming across your post. They'd be thinking that client-side sorting is the only way to work with Lists. Let's think about some experienced enterprise person trying to figure out if Alpha is something their company should be using... and then reading your post and thinking that SQL statements that include ORDER BY clauses slow down List updates.

    There are a ton of variables involved here... and if you could show why your List updates are faster... based on the way you've configured your List Control... then that's what this board is for.

    And I did try it... with a MySQL table of 830 records...

    Client-side sort: Initial Load between 2.25s and 2.53s. Initial update: 475ms. Subsequent updates: average 200ms.
    Server-side sort: Initial Load between 2.28s and 2.53s. Initial update: 475ms. Subsequent updates: average 174ms.

    Again... a buckets of variables will impact all of this. But your blanket statement doesn't have a basis.

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    "Certified" Alphaholic iRadiate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control

    Pete, my apologies if my reply offended you in some way, certainly was no intent on my part. I was just trying to clarify what I thought you were saying is all.

    You have much more experience than I so please do not stop posting. Your posts are usually different than most and always interesting!
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    "Certified" Alphaholic peteconway's Avatar
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    Default Re: Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control

    Let me clarify. SQL Server.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
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    Default Re: Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control

    Which Version of SQL Server? I just tested with the same table, 830 Rows, under SQL Server 2016. Same results as MySQL... which isn't surprising.

    Server-side sort: Initial load time between 2.21s and 2.55s. Updates averaging 170ms.
    Client-size sort: Initial load time between of 2.25s and 2.71s. Updates averages 185ms.

    The results you're seeing could be something specific you're doing with the UX or with the List Control.

    By the way... really nice app design.

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    "Certified" Alphaholic peteconway's Avatar
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    Default Re: Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control

    Thanks - I will look into this - just under the pump right now flying to the USA (in 2 days) for a month of business meetings and the DEVCON - so will get some time flying to put something together. All you guys relax, i'm not offended, just making a point.
    Cheers.
    Pete
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
    Albert Einstein, (attributed)
    US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

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    Default Re: Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control

    Hey Pete,
    Were you able to work on alpha while on the airplane? I remember trying to work in Alpha Ver 11 on an airplane where my laptop had no Internet connection. Even though my app needed nothing at all from the Internet, I could not get my component to run correctly in the browser - it thought the server was offline and it refused to recognize I was using a local server.

    Turns out that Alpha thought of this issue and built the little known method "{dialog.Object}._setSimulatedOnlineStatus(mode)" into the UX. Where mode is 'off', 'on' or an empty string to reset the behavior to default mode. There is probably something similar for a Grid.

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    Member aal_fareed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control

    i loved the app ... would like to see demo for this i can do marketing purpose .. is it related to health care ?
    nice work Pete...
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    "Certified" Alphaholic peteconway's Avatar
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    Default Re: Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control

    Yes its a medical event measuring application that persists every event duration of a Patient in care, Patient/Provider interaction and duration in each physical location within one or more clinics, hospitals or entities. Being persisted to the database every event by Patient or Provider or between each of them can be replayed at anytime show the duration of each interaction event. The application will persist some 50,000 event duration with audit a day in a small clinical environment. The events are tracked by RFID badges worn by the Patients ans Providers. No issue using AA on the plane as I have a copy of the SQL Server on my SurfacePro.

    Here's another example to give you an idea.
    Deidentified.png
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
    Albert Einstein, (attributed)
    US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

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    Default Re: Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control

    I have done medical app also regarding your radiology
    I can understand how much time you spent to build your app
    I loved it and if you want I can do marketing for doctors on my area I think lot of demand on such app

    Here is also my app link in Apple Store if u r interested to see it
    Compared to your app it's nothing though lol

    Radiology Bits by Ahmed Shahin
    https://itunes.apple.com/sa/app/radi...229608969?mt=8
    To live anywhere in the world today and be against equality because of race or color is like living in Alaska and being against snow.”

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    "Certified" Alphaholic peteconway's Avatar
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    Default Re: Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control

    Yes it's very detailed we even touch on hardware power status.
    Battery.png

    I'll get in touch with you. Thanks.
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
    Albert Einstein, (attributed)
    US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

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    Default Re: Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control

    Sure pls drop me message @ aal_fareed@hotmail.com
    Or you can pm here
    I am well confident to sell this as product
    Although the hardware concerns need to be adjusted based on the clinic / hospital devices right ?
    To live anywhere in the world today and be against equality because of race or color is like living in Alaska and being against snow.”

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    "Certified" Alphaholic
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    Default Re: Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control

    Pete,
    Those screen shots are really eye catching!

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    Default Re: Small but powerful trick for fast summits using the list control

    Peter, how are you piping your stream of RFID signals to your backend. I am assuming that this piping of data is outside of the AA platform or is it?

    Thank you,

    Michael Carroll

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