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run a runtime application in a network and no shadow db

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    #16
    Re: run a runtime application in a network and no shadow db

    Mike hasn't said what version of Citrix is being used or if virtual machines/servers are involved. Part of Citrix's appeal is that they have made a huge effort to allow the remote, server-based sessions to communicate with local hardware on the desktop, much more so than Microsoft/Terminal Services which is the closest competitor for this type of remoting desktop programs to a server. Citrix is, or has been, a much more expensive alternative.

    Most of the information about the number of concurrent remote users possible under TS and Citrix is frustratingly incomplete. Previous information would have pegged the maximum concurrent users, for acceptable performance, at around 12 - 14. That is, all users logged in and all using the application under normal conditions. It does depend somewhat on the complexity of the application and whether it's running a lot of summaries or things like A/R or A/P reports for display or printing. But if Mike can get 20+ concurrent users that would be very valuable information in favor of Citrix, since I'm pretty sure that the same could not be said of MS/TS.

    I see Mike posted that they reconfigured the Citrix printing setup and the printing issues seem to be resolved. That's good news.

    Later versions of Alpha (after A5V5) attach themselves to a single processor. There are a number of built-in Alpha functions which, theoretically, should allow you to spread the load and avoid these problems: they are PrimaryProcessor(), SelectBestProcessor() and SetPrimaryProcessor(). I spent a lot of time trying to get those functions to work in a T/S environment, but without much success and eventually we retreated back to shadowing.

    These issues have been dicussed before in relation to TS specifically, but could apply just as well to Citrix. One such discussion thread can be found at
    https://forum.alphasoftware.com/show...ngle+processor

    OTOH, knowing that a desktop application could be moved to a Citrix server and provide comparable performance for up to 20 users, might extend the life of some desktop apps in the face of the web onslaught.
    Finian

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      #17
      Re: run a runtime application in a network and no shadow db

      We have a different setup using TSPlus raher than Citrix/MS Remote Desktop where we are running 9 VMs on 2 servers, each with Intel Xeon E5-2650v4 with 128Gb of memory. All disk storage is SSD.

      Each VM is allowed 12 VCPUs, 24Gb of memory a system disk and a data disk. Each user starts their own instance of Alpha (currently a mix of V10.5 & V11, soon to be latest V12) with most accessing their own dedicated app.

      CPU normally maxes around the 50% mark during the working day with the odd processor/thread bumping to 100% for a couple of seconds.

      User counts of between 40 & 50 are easily managed on this setup per VM, although we do see significant problems if the user count goes much over 60 with users hanging on disconnect using 100% of a single core. We don't yet know if this is Microsoft, TSPlus, Alpha or our app. If anyone goes down this route we'd strongly reccomend that user user has a dedicated windows login as we have seen prints directed to the wrong location if 2 users are logged in with the same ID.

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        #18
        Re: run a runtime application in a network and no shadow db

        Hi Jon:
        Are you running Hyper-V or VMWare or something else? Have you ever checked which processor Alpha is using in the VM sessions? Do the Alpha instances on one VM all attach to the primary processor? Are your 40 - 50 users all running concurrently? I wonder if TSPlus has something to do with your concurrent user counts which are higher than I've seen reported for either MS TS or Citrix.

        Our "big box" server, is older but has loads of hd space (but not SSD) and 186 gigs ram. We divided it into 1 Vm server and about 15 vm's. We run only one Alpha per VM and shadow to the VM Server. Plus, for where we have scanners and other hardware attached, we will run from the desktop, also shadowed to the virtual server.
        Finian

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          #19
          Re: run a runtime application in a network and no shadow db

          I just knew you handled the Moon Landing!
          Nice set up, F.
          See our Hybrid Option here;
          https://hybridapps.example-software.com/


          Apologies to anyone I haven't managed to upset yet.
          You are held in a queue and I will get to you soon.

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            #20
            Re: run a runtime application in a network and no shadow db

            Finian,

            Running VMWare on these, but I do have an HyperV box that may see some action soon(ish) if things go according to plan.

            We have 50+ users logged in concurrently on each VM, most are idle at any time, but they obviously erach have an overhead. Attached image shows the CPU on the host with all processors sharing activitgy, so I must assume that Alpha is running on more than one core/thread.Capture.PNG

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