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Thread: Gmail trouble

  1. #1
    Member
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    Gene FitzPatrick
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    Default Gmail trouble

    I have a user that is having a hard time setting up gmail. Her settings are what is recommended and she comfirmed the proper email and password. She also opened her email with success from within Windows10 using the same mailbox, user name and password.

    I tried her settings on my own machine with the same results she has.

    We both received the same error message

    Connect to Outgoing (SMTP) Server succeeded.
    ---
    Login to Outgoing (SMTP) Server failed:
    The user name or password might be incorrect.
    535-5.7.8 Username and Password not accepted. Learn more at
    535 5.7.8 https://support.google.com/mail/?p=BadCredentials j7sm15853295qtc.73 - gsmtp

    Any ideas?

    Thanks,

    Gene

  2. #2
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    Gene FitzPatrick
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    PS: The Gmail setting to "allow less secure applications" needs to be set apparently. However, it appears that this setting can only be accessed by way of a Gmail admin account. Apparently this is a paid service. Is my understanding correct?

    If so, so much for "free" gmail. Feedback from anyone that has been down this path would be appreciated.

  3. #3
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    Gene FitzPatrick
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    OK. No one seems to have luck with Gmail. How about AOL? Anyone? Or any other recommended FREE email service that works from withing Alpha.

    I would like to find a free email service that I can have the users sign up for and provide that with the installation of my software. This is so that I can test it without the users getting a bad taste for the application because they can't get past this without great pains. Then they can redirect to their existing email of choice. That's the plan anyway.

  4. #4
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    Jon P Moody
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    Gene,

    It's possible to 'allow less secure apps' from a free gmail account, but they have a habit of resetting it at random intervals/moving the goalposts in other directions, so not a good long term solution.
    Outlook and Hotmail also have a habit of blocking email submission from 3rd party SMTP, so not a good fit.
    Others we've tried have strict limits on how many emails can be sent in a day e.g. 200, or intervals between sends e.g. 10 seconds which make them inappropriate too.

    Our preferred solution is to use a sparkpost account under our domain and forward all replies to the customer - no free option, but from $20/month. This works 99% of the time, but we currently have problems with Hotmail.com accounts, but not outlook.com rejecting the forwarded replies - call raised with Microsoft.

    We're also currently looking at zoho.com and protonmail.com to see if they match our requirements.

  5. #5
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    Gene FitzPatrick
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    So, put simply, A5 email functionality is broken and my application can not be sold!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All I need to do from my app. is to send emails. I do not need the receive function. Is there an Xbasic way to get this done that bypasses the profile setup requirements? If not, perhaps there should be. I have no problem using Comcast from my own machine using the Default profile. Why is there a problem with everything else?
    Last edited by Gene FitzPatrick; 10-23-2019 at 09:51 AM. Reason: Added info

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    There's nothing wrong with A5 email functionality - it's just that 3rd party providers are much stricter on what they consider acceptable.

    The big hitters (Microsoft, Google etc) are always changing things to encourage their users to use their products and nobody elses, but there are many providers out there that will be able to do what you need - you just need to find one that works for you.

    As I stated before, we use Sparkpost to send emails & then automatically forward any replies to our customer's preferred email address. We have over 800 customers, most emailing their customers via Alpha. Only about 60 of these currently use Sparkpost, but when we hit an email problem with another provider, we encourage them to switch to Sparkpost if possible. That way we can analyze the logs and highlight any bounced emails to our customers. We can also be sure that no matter how many emails they send we won't hit any limits imposed by 'free' solutions.

  7. #7
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    Gene FitzPatrick
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    So my users are forced to start a monthly subscription where they have been using free email for years?

  8. #8
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    Jon P Moody
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    Gene,

    That's not what I'm saying.

    If your users wish to continue using a gmail account or something similar, then you may have to assist them in getting the settings right, both in Alpha and on the gmail site. Once you know how to set it up, it's quite straight forward.

    If you want something more robust and manageable by YOU, then I suggest you set up a sparkpost or mandrill account and use the built-in aplha functions (or your own) to manage the sending of emails. You only need a single sparkpost account to manage all email addresses in a domain, so if you set up sparkpost to use e.g. genefitzpatrick.com you can then set up Alpha to use any email address under that domain e.g. customer1@genefitzpatrick.com for sending emails. You then need to ensure that any replies to customer1@genfitzpatrick.com are forwarded to the customers preferred address.

    There would be no extra cost to your customer, though you'd need to pay sparkpost $20/month for up to 50,000 emails or $30/month for up to 100,000 emails.

  9. #9
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    Gene FitzPatrick
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    Do you charge your 800 clients a monthly fee to cover your costs?

  10. #10
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    Jon P Moody
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    The sparkpost account is a very small part of our monthly IT costs. It is effectively absorbed as part of our general support/hosting/licensing fees.

  11. #11
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    Gene FitzPatrick
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    So the short answer is yes. I currently do not charge maintenance fees with my application. It looks like that is not wise on my part. It also looks like I will have to restructure my app to provide emailing functions ONLY to those that subscribe to that feature. That is unfortunate but a reality in today's nobody gets anything for free world. You can't even afford to provide anything for free today! Sad... So for me to get started with Sparkpost, will I have to purchase the Alpha domain service, or can I use the one I currently have?

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    Gene, you need a domain where you have access to add/update the dns records so that you can 'prove' ownership to sparkpost. You also need to be able to create 'forwarders' for any email addresses you use with sparkpost. I can do this via cpanel on my web hosting, you may have to follow another route.

    If you go for sparkpost make sure you set up the account on the correct service - sparkpost.com/pricing for the US, sparkpost.com/pricing/eu if in the EU. You can start with a free 'testing' account if you move the slider to the left. If you go for the EU option you won't be able to use the alpha functions as they only work with the US offering. I will post a function in my next missive

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    Here's the function I wrote for sending an email via sparkpost. Currently set to use the EU site.
    [CODE]FUNCTION E_Send_SparkPost AS C (email_to as C, email_subject as C, email_message as C, email_html_message as C, email_attachments as C)

    'Send an email via Sparkpost API
    'Inputs:
    'email_to = recipients emaiol address
    'email_subject = subject line of email
    'email_message = plain text version of email
    'email_html_message = html encoding email message
    'email_attachments = full path and filename to any attachment

    'create variables
    dim result as C
    dim ps as p
    dim pm as p
    dim API_key as C = "<your API key"
    'variables below could/should be passed to the function, but this version only ever sends from one email address and is therefore hardcoded
    dim email_images as C = ""
    dim email_from as C = "<customer@yourdomain.com>"
    dim email_alias as C = "<customer name>"

    'Open sparkpost SMTP session eith er US or EU
    'Using US settings
    'result = email_smtp_open(ps, "smtp.sparkpostmail.com", 587, "SMTP_Injection",API_key, "STARTTLS")
    'Using EU settings
    result = email_smtp_open(ps, "smtp.eu.sparkpostmail.com", 587, "SMTP_Injection",API_key, "STARTTLS")

    'if session correctly started, define & send the email
    if result then
    'use charset that includes

  14. #14
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    Gene FitzPatrick
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    I may be mistaken but, it appears to me that the beast I am experiencing is the ISP's blocking my attempts because I am unknown. i.e. Everyone is being protected to the point of dysfunction. So, if I understand what I am learning from all this, is that using a go-between like sparkpost interjects the "perceived safety" into the process. Is this line of thinking correct?

    One more question. I found that Mailgun provides 10,000 emails a month for free. Getting started for free appeals to me. I don't mind paying after things get working but I have already spent too much trying. Anyone in Alpha land have experience integrating Mailgun?

    MAILGUN ADVERTISES FREE BUT WHEN YOU FOLLOWUP ON IT YOU FIND CHARGES. DECEPTIVE ADVERTISING.
    Last edited by Gene FitzPatrick; 10-24-2019 at 03:16 PM. Reason: The truth discovered.

  15. #15
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    Gene FitzPatrick
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    Question for you Jon.

    If I sign up for sparkpost, will every user cost me and extra $20 per month? Example: I create a domain called balancedhealthpos.com with my own email address of Gene@balancedhealthpos.com and someone called Sue buys my system. With the system I set Sue up with an email address of Sue@balancedhealthpos.com. Will I incur an added $20 a month bill for Sue?

    Thanks,

    Gene

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    Gene,

    As an example, we have one sparkpost account with a dedicated IP address that currently costs $34/month. On that account we have set up 4 sending domains under each of which we have several email addresses - total about 70.

    Why not set up a testing sparkpost account at no cost, look at the doc and see what you can do?

    As long as you have the ability to add DNS records for your domain you can do pretty much anything with a single sparkpost account.

  17. #17
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    Gene FitzPatrick
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    Looks good Jon.

    Jon,

    If I understand correctly, with the sparkpost setup, in effect, every user will have the one interface. Only to the sparkpost account, each of which will in turn link to their existing email. This will eliminate the email hassles once I re-code my application.

    Correct?

    If so, it is well worth the low monthly cost in aggravation reduction alone.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    Yes, that's correct.

    If you're only using Alpha to send emails all users could share the same sparkpost API key - although this should be hidden from the user if possible.

    You'd need to manage email forwarding on a user by user basis, so would need to be given a forwarding address by the user.

    Aggravation much reduced our end, although email is still responsible for 50% of our support calls, we seldom get a call from a user set up for sparkpost.

  19. #19
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    Gene FitzPatrick
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    Thanks Jon.

    It seems like the time and patience you put into this discussion could save us both, and hopefully a lot more, a great deal of time and aggravation. Thanks for catering to my need for discovery.

    Regards,

    Gene

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    One more question. Is there a way to mandate an email send with or without seeing the letter/form when using sparkpost?

    Gene

  21. #21
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    Dave Mason
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    Most hosting companies have hosting for email only. I have my own hosting but use it for sending emails daily. I do not host emal only accounts, but https:webhostpython.com does and I can recommend. Usually less than others and very flexible with great service. Includes SSL, I believe and ssd.
    Dave Mason
    dave@aldausa.com
    Skype is dave.mason46

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene FitzPatrick View Post
    One more question. Is there a way to mandate an email send with or without seeing the letter/form when using sparkpost?

    Gene
    Not sure what you mean. As far as I am aware the contents of any email sent via sparkpost are not accessible, only details of the submission and it's subsequent progress.

  23. #23
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    Gene FitzPatrick
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    Hi Jon.

    Up until now, my system allowed the user to email form letters as well as creating a one-time email starting with a blank screen. I have resigned to allowing the emailing of letters only. That's OK. I am still waiting for a sparkpost rep to get back to me regarding verification issues. It's been 2 days. Have you experienced this slow response to a help request as well?

    Gene

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    Never had a problem with sparkpost support, but only raised 2 issues. One was answered within 15 minutes of the auto-response.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    Good morning Jon.

    I have set up a sparkpost account and have tried to use the following code to send an email to myself. No error is returned BUT no email shows up in my mailbox.
    What am I missing?

    dim pm as p
    Dim result as L
    Dim ps as P

    pm.from = usersfrom
    pm.to = email_to
    pm.subject = email_subject
    pm.message = email_message
    pm.cc = email_cc
    pm.bcc = email_bcc

    result = email_smtp_open(ps,"smtp.sparkpostmail.com",587,"SMTP_Injection",API_Key,"STARTTLS")

    RESULT = .F. APPARENTLY NO CONNECTION TO THE SERVER

    result = email_smtp_send(pm,ps)

    Thanks,

    Gene
    Last edited by Gene FitzPatrick; 11-09-2019 at 09:52 AM. Reason: Was incomplete

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    API_Key should be the string of hex digits returned when you created the sparkpost API Key under 'configuration'. The rest looks correct to me.

  27. #27
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    Gene FitzPatrick
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    Thanks Jon. It is.

    I have tried connecting to my comcast server using the same information that I use successfully in my default profile and get the same results. No connection. Perhaps the issue is elsewhere?

  28. #28
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    Jon P Moody
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    Is port 587 open through your firewall?

  29. #29
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    Gene FitzPatrick
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    Good question. How do I check that?

    By the way, I was using port 465 when trying with the Comcast settings.

    There must be some "just in case' code that happens when using the built in function that does not happen with email_setup_open. Otherwise, it seems to me, that this issue would be there with the built in function as well.
    Last edited by Gene FitzPatrick; 11-11-2019 at 05:22 PM. Reason: more info.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Gmail trouble

    You are not going to believe this gang! The problem I was having when testing was that I was sending the emails to myself! Normally no issue but with NAME.COM, it apparently is. When I sent the test emails to another one of my own email addresses, they showed up!

    Are you rolling your eyes yet? OY!

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