A4V7 is it worth it?

[jr223]

Hi,

I have been a loyall A4 fan for sometime and am the owner
of A5v4.5 as well.
But I just love the ease of use that A4vr6 offers me.
When I heard that there was a new version 7 that properly
supports WIN/NT/ME/2000 etc.. I was quite impressed.

My question is simple to those who own the current version
pf A4V7. Have you found it worth the upgrade price and
would you reccomend it.

Thanks
Jeff

[Rick Sloan]

RE: A4V7 is it worth it?

Hi Jeff

I have installed A4v7 right into my A4v6 Folder. I find it works great. It seems to use memory better, and there have been no crashes so far.

I think it's worth the price of admission for not allowing Bill Gates at Windoz kill Dos (which he seems very keen on doing) because that would kill A4.

Alpha should consider a windows based product...but use the same field names, script names, everything the same as in alpha4. This would make the transition seemless. That way us hard working guys could carry on without the huge learning curve.

Imagine calling a DBF a "table".

Who knows maybe someday.

For now though, this version is worth the money.

RS

[jr223]

RE: A4V7 is it worth it?

Thanks for the advice!

You are right on the mark with Alphpa making the windows product using the same field names, script names etc that A4 does.
I have found that importing my A4 databases into A5vr4.5
leaves lots of work, not to mention the learning curve
(Sigh!) as if there isn't enough to learn already.
And I have invested a lot of time in A4 not to mention trying to learn A5 -)
I still love the ease of use that A4 offers, I can creat a Dbase in seconds.
Imagine that no GUIs no Dialogue boxes or radial buttons, just fast efficient designeing.

Thanks
Jeff

[Rick Sloan]

RE: A4V7 is it worth it?

That's exactly right.

There are a countless people out there using A4v3 and above that don't want to give up what they have because they don't have the time to learn C++.....they're working hard trying to earn a living in this fast paced world.

I can understand that A5 has it's place in the world, but A4 is all my company requires.

If Alpha built a windows a4, new things and ideas could be introduced slowly (like they did before), so you would not have the huge "learning curve".

It's only my opinion, but I feel if Alpha had kept the A4 format when they switched over to windows, they would own the "windows based" DB product.

Enough venting....it's time to get back to work.

Regards to all

RS

[Ken L Herrold]

RE: A4V7 is it worth it?

All:

You guys love A4 as I do and, really the curve on A5 is a little more than a small challenge.

Sorry, once you've made the change to A5, however, you'll probably never go back.

Ken

[Rick Sloan]

RE: A4V7 is it worth it?

That may be true, Ken....but why have to change at all. You could have the best of both worlds with the ease of A4.

Once in the true windows environment, with all file names the same, the sky would be the limit.....more fields per dbf...more indexes. You could fax and e-mail from within the program. You could ask for no more.

I still say if Mr Rabins had moved to the windows configuration and kept a4 file names intact, he would have the best selling DB program out there by a long shot.

As I said earlier, there is no doubt A5 has its place in the world. I for one do not have the time to learn a whole new system...and I think I speak for countless others as well.

Maybe some day we will get our wish.

Best regards

RS

[Tom Cone Jr]

RE: A4V7 is it worth it?

I fear a windows 'clone' of Alpha Four would be a miserable failure. Why would anyone pay good money to use it if Alpha Four were still available?

The Windows environment is richer and deeper. For the programmer it's not just a new environment. It's a new way of building programs, and with MDI a new way for users to interact with a running program.

Users have gotten accustomed to being able to multi-task. No longer is the designer in charge... the user controls the flow of program logic interactively in many cases.

Unfortunately, with the power and depth of Windows comes an associated steep learning curve. Alpha Five does a good job of encapsulating and simplifying the complexity. It is not C++ by any reasonable measure.

-- tom

[Rick Sloan]

RE: A4V7 is it worth it?

You're missing the point, Tom. You have just enforced why this project would work.

A windows A4 Couldn't miss.

You would not have the learning curve, because the format would be the same. The A4 windows format would be richer and deeper as well. Theoretically, anything that can be done in a5 could be done with a4. We simply would not have that learning curve.

Why would people switch?

We know it is just a matter of time for DOS A4. If Gates had his way, I'm sure he would have rendered dos useless along time ago. A4V7 is a great stop gap for now...but does not cover all of the issues.

You can only use a windows printer in the standard mode...not type set mode. That still restricts the type of printer I use. If we had a windows A4 that would not be an issue.

How about an A4 with 1000 fields per dbf. More indexes per dbf. Use any printer you want...in effect have it all with no pain.

There are alot of people out there that "grew up" with dos dbf that do not want to learn a new system because Windoz wanted a monoploy.

A5 has its place but so does A4.

RS

[Tom Cone Jr]

RE: A4V7 is it worth it?

Rick,

It's possible I missed your point, but I think I see it just fine and simply disagree with it.

In my book Alpha Four was (is) a great tool for non-programmers who want to build or customize systems for their personal use. The complexities of building reliable database systems are largely encapsulated within A4's menu driven interface. The field rules and terrific report engine round out the package. The script recorder puts considerable power at the developer's hand, making it possible to build systems that other, less knowledgable, folks can use productively.

Believe it or not I think Alpha Five was designed, from the beginning, to replicate these same strengths in the Windows environment, while simultaneously taking advantage of Windows features that permit the interface to be extended in new ways.

The point I was trying to make, and that perhaps you're overlooking, is that the Windows programming environment is a different kind of beast. The environment itself shapes the look, feel and functionality of Windows programs.

If you literally did what you propose, and port an exact menu driven replica of Alpha Four into Windows no one would buy it. It would not behave like a Windows program. Folks that are used to other Windows programs would not know how to drive it. Folks that want to open multiple simultaneous views of the same table would be frustrated by Alpha Four's single document interface. Folks that want to see the same thing on paper as appears on screen woulld also be disappointed. Folks that like the dialog boxes, picklists, radio boxes, checkboxes and other such standard fare in standard Windows applications will be disappointed to see them missing. They know how these tools work. They'd have to learn the Alpha Four equivalents all over again, and then teach them to each batch of new employees who roll through the office.

-- tom

[Rick Sloan]

RE: A4V7 is it worth it?

Hi Tom

Maybe I did not explain myself clearly. You did miss my point. I am not a programmer. Obviously you are, and like A5 because of it. That is why I like A4. I like the menu driven A4. I don't need all of the fancy buttons etc., that come with A5 (although A4 could be introduced to them slowly).

I feel, there are alot more of my type of people out there (non programmers) than programmer/developers like you (that is why it would be a good business move).

As I said earlier, A5 has its place. You prove that being a programmer/developer. There is however a need for A4. I prove that (the non programmer). All we A4 (non programmers) are asking is that A4 be put into the windows format to allow us to continue to use it (instead of masking the A4 DOS from windows), and to benefit from some of the monopoly Gates has started and shoved at us (like full use of windows printer drivers, being able to fax from within the program...e-mail from within the program, etc.).

A5 sounds great...I just don't have the time to start all over again, and with an A4 windows product why would I.

Do you see what I mean now?

RS

[French]

RE: A4V7 is it worth it?

I understand the charms(?), appeal, and immediacy of Alpha Four. I sometimes fire it up for quick and dirty work that I need to get done. It isn't just Alpha Four. DOS software, in general, was that way.

However, Alpha Software is never going to make a splash trying to sell a remake of DOS software that runs under Windows. I think their only real market for A4v7 is to current users looking for a solution to the NT/XP problem. And I think they deserve a lot of credit for producing v7 which allows users to continue to run legacy A4 applications.

There are things I don't like about Alpha Five, but it has enough things that I like that it is what I fire up most of the time. If you believe that it's only programmers who like it and prefer it, you're making a big mistake. You can replicate most or all of what you can do in A4 in A5 without programming, and pick up many of the benefits A5 has to offer at the same time. A5 has a script recorder. It has Action Scripting. Neither require you to program.

It would be nice if old apps would simply load up and run in A5, but it isn't going to happen. There isn't going to be a conversion utility from Alpha, either. However, it would be short-sighted not to start developing new apps in A5. It takes a little time to wrap an Alpha Four brain around the Alpha Five way of doing things, but it is worth it.

[Tom Cone Jr]

RE: A4V7 is it worth it?

Rick,

Yes, I see what you are talking about. Instead of a literal port of the existing menu driven application, you want Alpha Five to be easier to learn and use for non-programmers.

I think that would be good, too. Even better, I think Alpha Software agrees! A new version of Alpha Five is in the works that will significantly enhance it's ease of use, especially for folks who don't write programs for a living. Watch for news on Alpha Five, Version Five...

By the way, I'm not a professional programmer. Just an old Alpha Four user who slogged his way part way to the top of the Alpha Five learning curve, and discovered along the trip that the effort was worthwhile.

-- tom

[Tom Cone Jr]

RE: A4V7 is it worth it?

Paul,

Well said.

-- tom

[Rick Sloan]

RE: A4V7 is it worth it?

Thanks fellas

I will have a look at A5v5 when it comes out but I have to tell you that my company does not "need" A5. A4 works great.

I still stand by my earlier comments.

I notice on this forum that there are people/companies still using A4v3. They obviously don't require A5, but would stay with the menu driven A4. Jeffry Rosmarin, who started this topic has/is a user of both and likes the idea of windoz a4. This would simply give people a choice of what would be adaquate for their personal/company needs and wants. I would stay with a4, simply because we don't need anything else.

Is a windows A4 a good business proposition? People at Alpha will have to decide that. I do know, with people its hard to break old habits. With companies its "If it ain't broke, why fix it". People and companies would simply gravitate to this product to continue to use the great A4 product we now know and love.

I will investigate A5v5 when it comes out...but given the choice to stay or switch...I'd stay.

Thanks for the discussion, fellas...Its been great.

RS

[jr223]

RE: A4V7 is it worth it?

Thanks Rick,

Yes I like both.
I started with A4 version2 and loved it. I then purchased later versions up to A4 version 6 and still love the product.
It is soooo easy to use, I have created many none buisness related databases for myself in a matter of a few minutes.
While the DOS world is quickly shrinking and fading away, its still great to see Alpha has addressed some issues with this fine product with v7.
I will shed a tear when Alpha4 finally disappears, as we all know it will with windowz and Msoft pushing the GUI interface and the Windowz apps.
As for A5 ver4.5 I find it an excellent product as well, but the worst part is all the panels button etcc. and lets face it the tutorial manual that comes with A4 was an incredibly easy way to figure out the product and get into it right away.
I have purchased the manuals with A5 vr4.5 but find them not very easy to use.
It will take some time and a large investment in learning A5 vr4.5
In the meantime I still am thinking about A4vr7 for home use and whish only the best for both products.

Thanks
Jeff