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Windows2000 & Millenium Alert

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    Windows2000 & Millenium Alert

    Hi Everyone:

    On 05/17/00 I posted a message to this board concerning serious problems encountered with Windows 2000.

    When adding or deleting fields Win2000 trashes the database.

    I was finally able to get through to Senior Tech Reps at Microsoft.

    I sent them Alpha4v6.2 and several databases to work with.

    They were able to duplicate the problem, however because of code changes to Win2000 could not find a work around.

    They offered to refund the money I paid for Win2000.

    The same code will be in Windows Millenium addition, so if you upgrade your Win98 Alpha4v6 will not work properly.

    Gary W. Hill

    #2
    Windows2000 & Millenium Alert

    I noticed that Alpha 4v3 crashes very badly with Windows 2000. I'm sorry to hear that Alpha 4v6 also crashes with Windows 2000. I had use A4v3 on Win2000 and notice that the "date fields" were destroyed immediately. I perform similar simple test on A4v6 and did not experience this problem.
    Thank you for the heads up. Will there be a patch to Alpha 4v6? As much as I like 'Windows', I'm not ready to give up my Alpha Four(DOS) for some of my applications, I've built.
    If there is a patch that will become available to work around Windows2000 & Millenium, please let me know.

    Comment


      #3
      RE: Windows2000 & Millenium Alert

      Hi Richard:

      There will be no patch.

      According to Microsoft they fixed problems with Addressing memory and thats the way it will stay.

      The only way it could be fixed is if Alpha Software contacted Microsoft and found what portion of the memory addressing in Alpha4v6 to correct.

      I already went this route, and Selwyn Rabins the owner is unwilling to spend any money or time fixing Alpha4v6. In fact he was unwilling to work with Microsoft as I did to find out what the problem is and if there was a work around.

      So that's the kind of support you can expect from Alpha Software.

      Gary

      Comment


        #4
        RE: Windows2000 & Millenium Alert

        Gary,

        I think what you said about Alpha Software is a bit unfair. Alpha Four is a mature product that development has ended. The original A4 programmers are gone, and repairing it would require an immense investment that only a very small portion would ever be recouped.

        You might as well be asking that Alpha Four be expected to work in Linux OS. Just because it has a Windows name on it and comes from Microsoft, does not mean it's "Windows".

        Besides, I bet dollars to doughnuts that the problem lies in the DOS extender technology from Rational Systems, and that's an area out of Alpha's control.

        I think it's a tribute to Alpha Four that it lasted this long and is still available for purchase (for those who have current applications they don't/aren't ready to update) There are many programs that the DOS versions don't work in Windows 2000 and their project formats are not compatible with the Windows versions (e.g. Print Shop) and are a whole lot simpler than A4 (e.g. they are not multi-user).

        As to Microsoft, they have no interest in maintaining backward compatibilty, and in fact have a real interest in not doing this, as it increases their application sales (and hence they find themselves in an anti-trust suit!).

        I have warned my clients since Windows 95 came out that it was time to start the process to moving to a new (Windows) platform. Alpha 5 version 4 is probably the 1st version from Alpha Software that I felt was ready for my clients, and that has been out for a while. Other database platforms for Windows are available too.

        Finally, I wonder if there is a memory manager out there that may fix Windows 2000 limitations. Perhaps someone will come across one and report back.

        Regards,

        Ira J. Perlow
        Computer Systems Design & Associates
        [email protected]
        Regards,

        Ira J. Perlow
        Computer Systems Design


        CSDA A5 Products
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        Comment


          #5
          RE: Windows2000 & Millenium Alert

          I seem to remember a few years ago that someone had managed to replace the dos4gw 32bit extender with another version or type to stop granular errors. I can't remember the exact details but does anyone have an idea of what ime talking about. Perhaps the replacement could be tried for stability within win2000.

          Also, everyone still using A4 should at least give A5v4 a try it realy is very nice and version 5 will be even easier to use, pinching some of the best bits from A4.

          I use both and although I do find A5 slower on screen updates and global updates its made up for by may other features.
          Chris Tanti
          Technical Support

          Nuance & Fathom Ltd - The data-driven marketing agency

          Comment


            #6
            RE: Windows2000 & Millenium Alert

            Hi Ira:

            You are 100% correct about the DOS extender program being the problem.

            The reason I know this is Alpha4v3 works on Win2000 and did not have the DOS extender.

            After I finally got through to some senior tech reps they called Alpha Software and tried to get a copy to test with.

            No response.

            I finally sent them a copy to work with.

            Selwyn made one half hearted attempt by E-mailing one of the original tech reps who was at the bottom of the totem pole and didn't understand the problem. He answered back their was no solution.

            At this Selwyn dropped the whole issue.

            I sent an E-mail asking him to contact one of the Senior reps listed in the reply the original rep sent.

            He refused, saying he didn't have a design team and the issue was closed.

            Since I am a customer, and I have Versions Four and Five I could not understand this.

            I asked him if he does not have a design team, who is designing and maintaining Alpha5.

            He never answered.

            Since when is it the customers problem to find solutions to software they buy?.

            All I wanted him to do was follow the chain up until someone at Microsoft gave him the answer to the problem and then get back to us with an explanation.

            I did try the DOS extender program you suggested ( I believe it was you ) but still got the same results.

            Someone on the board said something about the PHAR Lap extender but I have no idea if it still exists, and if it did, how would you hook it to Alpha4?.

            I use Alph4v6 on a daily basis at work to maintain a large DataWarehouse in excess of 3,000,000 records.

            Alpha5 and Access are extemely slow on query's etc.

            I constantly use this database and Alpha4 to give the company different views and reports of sales trends etc.

            This is on a Win98 Machine.

            The Windows 2000 Machine is my own at home. ( dual processor ) which is only recognized by NT4.0 or 2000.

            Well anyway thanks for your thoughts.

            Gary




            Comment


              #7
              Windows2000 & Millenium Alert

              Hi Gary,

              Thank you for the update information. You really went all out to trying to remedy this problem.

              I had a lot of respect for Alpha 4 and had been using Alpha 4 since A4v1.1. The reason why I was so stubborn in switching Alpha 4 platforms was because with four releases of Alpha 4v1,v2,v3,v4, v6. I also paid for the �runtime� licenses, which was a few thousand dollars with each upgrade depending upon the chosen plan for each upgrade. At A4v6 runtime cost became more manageable.

              If Alpha Software didn�t charge $1,000-2,000+ in the early days for unlimited runtime licenses, I would be more forgiving. Regarding customer support, it never really existed. When I had trouble with Alpha4v4, customer support never really helped. This was not Windows 2000! This was back in the old days when you used �386 Max� for disk caching on high end 386-486 PCs during that time. Alpha4v4 was the first 32bit versus 16bit A4v1,v2,v3 and I had to do a lot of tweaking of some systems to get this up and going.

              I did call to talk to Alpha Software about Alpha 5 a few years ago, but all lines were busy.

              As you can tell this was some time ago. Since then Alpha Four was used as my DOS database and Microsoft Access 95, 97, 2000 are my main Windows based platforms. Ira is right, maybe that is why Microsoft is in the anti-trust lawsuit. I refuse to use Alpha 5 as I�m staying with MS Access for my Window 95-2000 needs.

              Regarding DOS extenders, I have had no problems with Clarion Software for DOS 2.1 in Windows 2000. In the old days DOS extenders were sold as an add-on. Now it is bundled and sold with Clarion 3 for DOS. Clarion is also pushing their Windows database version.

              Since Alpha Software sales and customer support phone lines are constantly busy, I don�t think they are short on sales for a customer base, but I would like to see more of their presence in stores. Before Alpha Software was very easy to buy off the shelf. Now I�m lucky to see products like Filemaker, Paradox, Lotus Approach on occasion. In a way I suppose competition today still remains alive and well for all database software.

              Richard

              Comment


                #8
                RE: Windows2000 & Millenium Alert

                To Gary, Ira, Rich:

                Hats off you you guys for the work you've done on this. Ira's always been in here helping me limp along with learning database stuff. I'm sure many of us would have stumbled horribly on this issue if Gary hadn't been so tenacious to find a solution to this problem. I really appreciate and admire all of your talents!!! Thanks!

                Question: Is there any way to seperate the DOS extender from Alpha Four Version 6, so that it "might" work on Win2000 as suggested by someone advising that A4V3 or V4 works fine in Win2000???

                Thanks again!!!
                Mike
                Thank you,
                Mike Konoff

                Comment


                  #9
                  RE: Windows2000 & Millenium Alert

                  Gary,

                  "Someone on the board said something about the PHAR Lap extender but I have no idea if it still exists, and if it did, how would you hook it to Alpha4?."

                  The Phar Lap DOS Extender is not compatible with the Rational Systems DOS Extender, thus it is useless. The PMODE DOS extender is somewhat compatible, and has been reported not to work. There is a later version of Rational Systems DOS extender (I believe 2.01?) that may be better, and could be substituted, but I don't have it. It may have been included with other products, and potentially could be utilized to see if the problem still occurs.

                  "I use Alph4v6 on a daily basis at work to maintain a large DataWarehouse in excess of 3,000,000 records.

                  Alpha5 and Access are extemely slow on query's etc."

                  If you have that many records in Alpha 5, you should be very careful in your Query specification and utilize expressions in the query and the index expressions that allow LQO (Lightning Query Optimization). You can also use ranges, but A5 does not encourage their use as it supposely is not compatible with SQL (which is where A5 is going in the long haul). Alpha 5 can be the same or even faster than A4 (plus have all the other capabilities that A4 does not) if designed carefully

                  Regards,

                  Ira J. Perlow
                  Computer Systems Design & Associates
                  [email protected]

                  Regards,

                  Ira J. Perlow
                  Computer Systems Design


                  CSDA A5 Products
                  New - Free CSDA DiagInfo - v1.39, 30 Apr 2013
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                  Comment


                    #10
                    RE: Windows2000 & Millenium Alert

                    Mike,

                    "I'm sure many of us would have stumbled horribly on this issue if Gary hadn't been so tenacious to find a solution to this problem."

                    Thanks for the kudos, but at present, Gary indicates that the problem has been identified by Microsoft, and there is no user based solution available.

                    "Question: Is there any way to seperate the DOS extender from Alpha Four Version 6, so that it "might" work on Win2000 as suggested by someone advising that A4V3 or V4 works fine in Win2000???"

                    Version 4 and Version 6 both use the DOS extender (Version 3 was the last non-DOS extender version). It is not possible for them to work without the DOS extender

                    Regards,

                    Ira J. Perlow
                    Computer Systems Design & Associates
                    [email protected]
                    Regards,

                    Ira J. Perlow
                    Computer Systems Design


                    CSDA A5 Products
                    New - Free CSDA DiagInfo - v1.39, 30 Apr 2013
                    CSDA Barcode Functions

                    CSDA Code Utility
                    CSDA Screen Capture


                    Comment


                      #11
                      RE: Windows2000 & Millenium Alert

                      Ira,

                      What are the criteria for somebody buying a new machine to add to a current network using Alpha 4?

                      Does one say I want W98? If the answer is "that it is not available" does one look for recycled machines?

                      As many people realize the cost of development of new applications is high. If it is working now, why change it? That is the reasons for staying with A4.

                      I see from a later message somebody is in this predicament with Windows ME. Is this the death blow for A4?

                      Steve

                      Comment


                        #12
                        RE: Windows2000 & Millenium Alert

                        Steve,

                        A Win 95 or Win 98 would be the best choices for A4V4 or A4V6 with about 64 Megs of RAM. Windows ME may be OK, but I have not tested that. Nevertheless, WIN 2000 seems to not be OK, based upon a large variety of people's input here on the message board. Tread carefully with Windows ME as well, and test extensively with A4 before incorporating it into the network.

                        Regards,

                        Ira J. Perlow
                        Computer Systems Design & Associates
                        [email protected]
                        Regards,

                        Ira J. Perlow
                        Computer Systems Design


                        CSDA A5 Products
                        New - Free CSDA DiagInfo - v1.39, 30 Apr 2013
                        CSDA Barcode Functions

                        CSDA Code Utility
                        CSDA Screen Capture


                        Comment


                          #13
                          RE: Windows2000 & Millenium Alert

                          After reading the earlier messages from Gary Hill, I went down to my local
                          computer store and purchased a new hard drive AND a copy of W98 SE OEM. It's about
                          $90 if you do it that way. Much cheaper that the full boat of about $180. for
                          a full edition (I don't like upgrades, had major problems with w98 First).
                          You can also get the OEM with a motherboard. I've also seen it on eBay.
                          I'm probably going to have to buy A5V5, because I just don't see any way around
                          the problems with A4V6 ( Can't print to USB, can't use some Windows only printers
                          Sheer fun of writing new printer definitions) but I am going to use A4V6 as
                          long as I can

                          Dan

                          Comment


                            #14
                            RE: Windows2000 & Millenium Alert

                            Ira,
                            I understand W95 or W98 is the best way of going. However, it seems that new machines are not giving you the option to chose.

                            My point is, that if indeed we don't have a choice of W95 or W98, can A4 function?

                            If not, then it looks like goodbye......... A4.

                            I hope I am wrong as I am no where near competent enough to migrate to A5.

                            Steve

                            Comment


                              #15
                              RE: Windows2000 & Millenium Alert

                              Steve,

                              If you go to A5 your won't grasp it overnight. However, just as what happened to me with A4, getting to know all its' feature and habits will take time. I began dabbling in A5 about a year ago, and let me tell ya...I like it; and I was an A4 die-hard.

                              I still us A4 and once Version-5 of A5 comes out, I think that I'm on may way to A5 all the way. There are so, so many neat little things about it that make it much more easy for me to do things. I can do things in A5 that I cannot fathom how to accomplish in A4. The reports in A5 are fabulous.

                              Some people think that going to A5 is an upgrade. When you chose to use "migrate" you picked a better term. There are only a few similiarities...you can use your A4 data (A5 is .dbf compatible) and the field rules are in there too. Other than that, it's a different ball of wax, but to me...its' more powerful and more capable.

                              Good luck,
                              Mike
                              Thank you,
                              Mike Konoff

                              Comment

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