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Manual Messed up and Misleading

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    #16
    RE: Manual Messed up and Misleading

    Tom:

    Thank you for your very detailed reply.

    In the mean time, I lucked into something. I simply placed a calculated field on the form and used this formula to produce the desired results:

    calc->Asma+calc->Support+calc->Total_Security_Device_Sales

    I just dropped the "total" from the formula!

    In now correctly adds up and displays the content of the other 3 fields.

    Comment


      #17
      RE: Manual Messed up and Misleading

      Good! A simple sum, as I had hoped.

      Hang in there. You will find that much of what you know about dBase expressions and functions will continue to apply, however the interface commands (those which manipulate forms or their objects) will be new.

      The tutorials are helpful.

      Starting small and simple while learning how to control the data entry process is highly recommended.

      Good luck! -- tom

      Comment


        #18
        RE: Manual Messed up and Misleading

        Jim,
        You said,
        >>Thanks, Tom. I'm glad you cleared that up because the first procedure does not work on a set.<<

        But it does; the only difference is when editing the structure of a set the menu bar (not the toolbar) has an entry labeled "set" and when editing the structure of a table, and entry labeled "table".

        Sometimes it's tough to see what another sees in this long distance help stuff.

        As Tom indicates, you'll find Ed is pretty "fussy" about his documentation and will appreciate your comments.

        Comment


          #19
          RE: Manual Messed up and Misleading

          Ohlen:

          I appreciate your help. It did point me in the right direction. However, to be precise, when you right click on a set, the option "Edit Structure" does not appear....correct? Instead the option "Edit Set" is available.

          That is what I meant by the "procedure" doesn't work for sets.

          I don't know Ed but if he would like some feedback from someone who has just gone through 2 weeks of frustration because of problems and inconsistencies in the documentation, I would be more than willing to supply examples.

          One I just ran into is in the tablesum function. The documentation shows the use of quotes around all 3 parameters. When you use the function editor, the "walk through" example on the screen does not contain quotes. The manual makes no mention of this. I spent an hour trying to follow the on screen example only to find that the on screen editor and manual say 2 different things.

          In any case, I still can't get the function to work! I right clicked on the table, Trans-2003, and created a calculated field using "tablesum("Trans-2003.dbf", ".T.", "Sec_Dev_Price")". When I attempt to place the field on the form, I get an error telling me there is an error in the field.

          Finally, I just got it to work while writing this message ... by creating the calculated field on the SET and not on the TABLE itself! To my knowledge, the documentation does not make this distinction! What a waste of time! And now I am wondering if I use that table in another set will I lose that calc field?

          BTW, is there any way to delete non used calculated fields from the drag and drop list?

          Pardon my expression of anger, but I have been going nuts with this program! No wonder my staff threw the job back in the Boss's lap to figure out!

          Comment


            #20
            RE: Manual Messed up and Misleading

            Jim,

            I'll take your comments as an expression of frustration instead of anger. All of us went through the learning curve. While Alpha5 is an easier database program than most others, it is by no means like falling off a log. I fear you are jumping into the middle of the learning process without going through the beginning steps. Strongly suggest you work through the tutorial prior to allowing the program to defeat you.

            Even the experts (I'm not one of those, just a duffer here) will tell you there is always more to learn.

            Comment


              #21
              RE: Manual Messed up and Misleading

              Jim,

              I did not know that tablesum() would take a set name as its first argument. Please post an example so we can see it.

              There are several different kinds of calculated fields, and some have very different scopes. I tried to explain this in an earlier post in this thread. If your new calc field is defined in the form layout it will not be available to other forms and will have to be redefined there. If your new calc field is defined for the table it should be availabe in any form that is based on that table.

              -- tom

              Comment


                #22
                RE: Manual Messed up and Misleading

                Tom:

                I just sent you a screen shot directly to your email address

                Comment


                  #23
                  RE: Manual Messed up and Misleading

                  Jim, thanks, I'll look for it.

                  A picture is nice. But a copy of the database that I can play with and test ideas on, using the same structures and data that you are using, is MUCH better (i.e. easier on me, and faster for you!)

                  -- tom

                  Comment


                    #24
                    RE: Manual Messed up and Misleading

                    Tom:

                    The database contains a lot of confidential information and I cannot send it out of house....sorry.

                    BTW, I upgraded to the latest version as you suggested. I wrongly assumed that since I just got the CD a week ago that it would be the latest version.

                    To A5 Staff: Please add a "WISHLIST" section to your forums.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      RE: Manual Messed up and Misleading

                      Hello Jim:

                      Let me continue in the vein of a message Ohlen posted earlier reference your expression of anger because you couldn�t solve a problem with your first A5 database. Although Alpha Five almost certainly has the best combination reference Ease of Use and Power in the market place, it is far more complicated process than using a Word Processor.

                      In other words, it takes a long time before one becomes used to the terminology, terms, expressions, programming language, and most of all, the A5 paradigm. I don't know anyone who can pick this up in only two weeks. In fact, I don't know anyone who has picked up a thorough understanding of this database program in only two months.

                      So it is perfectly understandable that you will experience numerous problems trying to develop an application at this very early stage. Please accept that as part of the learning curve.

                      In light of the above thought, I think there is a big difference between anger and frustration. More often than not, your inability to do something in Alpha Five will be a result of your lack of knowledge. At this point in time, your lack of expertise certainly doesn't merit a reaction of anger. I think you should take a deep breath and ask for help from the very courteous, bright, and knowledgeable people who visit this forum on a daily basis.

                      Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if you think you can harness all of the power, concepts, and nuances of this program in two weeks, you are making a big mistake. Conversely, if you realize that people have used this program for years and we're still learning new concepts and techniques every day, that could help ease your level of frustration. If you take that approach and accept the fact that becoming proficient with Alpha Five will be a long-term project, I think you�ll eventually learn to appreciate the tremendous programming power now sitting at your finger tips.

                      Just my thought for a Sunday afternoon,
                      Robert T


                      Comment


                        #26
                        RE: Manual Messed up and Misleading

                        Robert:

                        Thank you for your reply. Much of what you say is true.

                        However, for a person programming since 1974, I think one might have some insight as to whether the problem lies with the person, program or documentation.

                        When you lift a function, for example, right from the documentation and paste it into where the documentation says it should go and you get an error message with no explanation or it just doesn't plain work, this is not the result of inexperience. The response to this kind of situation I think is rightly called anger.

                        Just FYI, I first bought A4 version 4 for DOS years ago. The problem is in getting A5 v5 to correctly do it's fancy stuff! Two weeks ago, I upgraded from A5 4.5 to V5.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          RE: Manual Messed up and Misleading

                          Hello Jim:

                          I wasn't saying you're inexperienced. In fact, sometimes having no experience can be a plus. After working with other programs since 1974, it's only human nature to expect A5 to work the same way. Many people have gone through this process and told us the process was extremely difficult until they somehow did their best to completely forget how they did things in the past. Why? Because their old habits and expectations actually slowed down their transition from whatever program [including A4 for DOS] to A5.

                          On the surface, it sounds as if you're complaint is legitimate. However, I've learned over time, that what appears obvious with A5, isn't always so obvious. In other words, very often, there is something else happening in the background, or somewhere else, which is creating the unexpected behavior. And when you're new to A5, it is very easy to misunderstand or totally miss that possibility. In fact, it's easy to miss even when you've been working with A5 for years.

                          Good Luck with your problem,
                          Robert T

                          Comment


                            #28
                            RE: Manual Messed up and Misleading

                            Jim I suspect that the problem that you are having with the tablesum() function is the dash in your table name. I would only use A through Z, 0 through 9 and _ for a table name (although I couldn't find this in the documentation).

                            Comment


                              #29
                              RE: Manual Messed up and Misleading

                              That was my first thought, too. I didn't check it since the immediate problem was resolved but I think it's a good possibility.

                              At the risk of sounding like a broken record to some, here are some naming rules I've developed. Jim, since you've been programming that long I'm sure you've had plenty of opportunities to go back to old code and modify it. In the process, one of the common issues is finding all instances of a variable, field name, form name, etc. My naming rules are based on my experiences trying to locate these items as accurately as possible. (I generally use A5Doc for this purpose.) I hate wasting time checking 100 or so references just to find none are valid - and, yes, that has happened.

                              The key factor is Unique. If the name isn't unique, a lot of time will be wasted checking the wrong things.

                              - ONLY use letters, numbers, and underscores for any names. No other special characters should ever be used - including blank spaces, dashes, and ampersands for anyone who doesn't understand "No other special characters."
                              - NEVER use blank spaces in table names, script names, or layout names. Instead, use an underscore.
                              - End all field names with the letter "f". It looks a bit strange at first but it makes searches later much more accurate.
                              - Use two-word names whenever possible. This makes each name more unique. (EX: For a field name, instead of Company, use Comp_namef)
                              - For indexes that you build, always put an underscore on the end. (Note that an index on Comp_namef now becomes Comp_name_ which makes it unique.) In addition to making searches more accurate, this distinguishes them from indexes built by Alpha which makes it much safer when trying to clean up a database and remove unnecessary indexes. It's always safe to remove indexes created by Alpha because Alpha will rebuilt the index if needed but indexes you built may require more analysis before deletion.
                              - Keep field and index names to 10 characters or less. This is not absolutely required. It's just a litte added safety factor to avoid some possible development issues.

                              Each person has their own likes and dislikes when it comes to naming so I don't expect everyone to adhere to these rules but I would hope that at least a few people are aware of the rationale so they are at least making an informed decision. To read more about my rationale, read my web page on A5_Naming_Conventions.

                              Cal Locklin
                              www.aimsdc.net

                              Comment


                                #30
                                RE: Manual Messed up and Misleading

                                What happened? This message board isn't working with HTML tags any more??

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