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RE: the REAL V5 prices

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    RE: the REAL V5 prices

    Folks I am new here as of today. I used Alpha 4 Ver 1.0 in 1984 and found it to be great bang for the buck at the time - for my needs. Moved on to Dbase, etc. from there. Now I am coming back with an application that I "wish" to develop and sell, most of which is already banged out. I've downloaded Trial A5 V4.5 some time back and still liked what I saw, some years later. I've read al I can on all of the current database programs out. Alpha still seems to be the one for me. I'll need runtime to sell my app and found the A5 V4.5 pricing very much to my liking. Now, I am seeing A5 V5.0 pricing and I am seriously considering my options. What I am looking at is the pricing of competitive applications to what I am developing. With the new A5 pricing I can't develop, sell and be competitive, even with a better mousetrap. This new pricing really screws my whole business plan. I think you have to look at what the end-user can and will pay for an application and work backward.
    Just a few comments from the peanut gallery.
    Keith

    #2
    RE: the REAL V5 prices

    Regarding the runtime, make sure you understand the difference between distribution rights and number of simultaneous users. Unless you write for a big client you won't need more than 10 users--one time only: unlimited distribution for all your clients put together.

    Bill
    Bill Hanigsberg

    Comment


      #3
      RE: the REAL V5 prices

      Thanks Bill. I'll look at that. Maybe will fit my needs just fine.
      Keith

      Comment


        #4
        RE: the REAL V5 prices

        For clarification, Bill is saying that with a 10 user RT, you can deploy your app to as many clients as you want; they can have anywhere from 1-10 computers.

        If you get a client w/more than 10 computers, you'll be able to upgrade the RT for the difference in the costs of RT. So, $349 + $799 = $1,148. If you get a clinet w/more than 10 computers on a network, upgrade to the 20 user RT for another $200. Surely you can add $200 to the cost of an app for that scenario.

        Why is that so bad? Divide the $1148 up amongst X # of clients....I'd say that's a money maker for you. Plus, you can deduct A5 on your taxes, providing your in the US. Don't know if that holds true in other countries.

        kenn
        TYVM :) kenn

        Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

        Comment


          #5
          RE: the REAL V5 prices

          I've been reading the board and I'm not sure I ever really saw the official V5 pricing.. Does it exist somewhere so that I can get everything together so I can order my upgrade in development upgrade and RT upgrade.
          Help me, help me to understand the real deal.
          Alan Sawyer

          Comment


            #6
            RE: the REAL V5 prices

            One thing is for sure; there is a lot of passion about the product. Even those saying they may need to look to other options really don�t want to leave. I haven�t seen this much discussion, when the government raises taxes! Alpha is a very unique product in the software world and while it may not demand the same following (at least as of yet), of Access and others, it is probably being more successfully used by a broader spectrum of users then any other data base product. At this stage of the game, I don�t believe that Alpha can afford to loose any of its established bases.

            I see the user base broken down into 4 tiers. Level 1 is the single user with no intentions to ever use the program beyond personal use. They could care less about runtime and given the dynamic changes in the program will not doubt be willing to pay for an update.

            Level 2 is the hobbies, who would like to maybe build and share some basic level application with a club, church group or civic organization. Upgrading is likely but they are priced out of the game for runtime.

            Level 3 is the organization or company that wants to develop something in house that is unique to their organization. There appears to be a strong core of these users and to date, I�m not seeing these people come around regarding pricing. Alpha cannot afford to loose these people.

            Level 4 is the person whose livelihood is the program. They are the cornerstones of this board and none of us can afford to have them leave. While I not sure everyone is totally happy with the pricing, it appears that most are coming around.

            Being a unique product, may call for some unique pricing. At present I fall in Level 2/3 and aspire to someday move into the higher levels. It is surprising the amount of money that business spend on computers and software and how little productively gain that they often achieve. I am a consultant in another field and every day I see all kinds of opportunity to implement data base applications that would save people real time and money. It is the type of thing that Alpha can handle very well and the kind of thing that does not need Delphi or other elaborate software. There is more work out there then people.

            I would like to see a limited runtime available for a reasonable cost, but with the ability to distribute only a limited amount of applications. While I�m not presently sophisticated enough to know how this would be done, I would conceive the ability to distribute a limited number of applications for a fixed fee and additional applications or seats could be added as needed. I would hope that changes in an application could be accounted for without tax for the changes. This would afford emerging developers the resources and courage to explore business opportunities, help treat the single business user differently from the developer, while continuing and hopefully increasing Alpha�s revenue base, while not putting undue burden on the heavy user until an application is sold.

            Comment


              #7
              RE: the REAL V5 prices

              As posted by Bill Warner yesterday.

              OK, folks, here are the prices per Richard Rabins:

              Upgrade New User
              Single User $299 $349
              3 pack $749 $849
              5 pack $1099 $1249

              10-user Runtime $799 $899
              20-user Runtime $999 $1099
              Unlimited Runtime $1499 $1599
              TYVM :) kenn

              Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

              Comment


                #8
                RE: the REAL V5 prices

                Thanks Ken,
                Alan Sawyer

                Comment


                  #9
                  RE: the REAL V5 prices

                  So if I paid $145 for V4.5, and $695 for unlimited RT V4.5, then to upgrade to V5 is
                  $299 (V5 upgrade) + $1499 (V5 RT Upgrade) less what I already paid ($145 (1 user) + $695(RT)) = $958 to pay for the upgrade???
                  Alan Sawyer

                  Comment


                    #10
                    RE: the REAL V5 prices

                    I would like to see a limited runtime available for a reasonable cost, but with the ability to distribute only a limited amount of applications.

                    As far as I'm concerned, we have that and then some. Limited runtime is available in 10 or 20 user RT. Why do you want to restrict what Alpha has offered?

                    Again, Say I purchase the 10-user RT. That means I can deploy my app to as many clinets as I want to a max of 10 computers/per network. If the client has 2 network sites, I can essentially sell my app twice, unless I want to give a discount. No RT greater than the 10 user RT is necessary.

                    If a client has more than 10 computers on a network, then purchase the 20 user RT for the price difference. If a client has more than 20, then jump up to the Unlimited RT, again for the price difference. Most of us will not need more than 10 RT.

                    What do you consider to be a resonable price for the RT?

                    If you have a shop where there are 3-5 persons doing development, then buy the 3 or 5 pack.

                    Not a bad deal. What you get for the buck is a big BANG as far as I'm concerned. Even for a small ma & pa business.

                    kenn
                    TYVM :) kenn

                    Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      RE: the REAL V5 prices

                      To clarify ken's clarification, when he says, "you can deploy your app to as many clients as you want; they can have anywhere from 1-10 computers" he is not 100% correct. They can install the rt on 11 or on 111 or 1111 computers. However, only 10 (any 10) will be able to simultaneously access the same application if you have purchased rights for ten users.

                      There are situations where this distinction may be important.

                      Bill
                      Bill Hanigsberg

                      Comment


                        #12
                        RE: the REAL V5 prices

                        John, et al:

                        I consider myself a Level 4 (Jr) according to your scale and I like your limited application distribution idea. I am currently developing one application that I would essentially mass-market to a focused industry group. I could see the possibility of developing additional applications in time, but my primary focus is to continue developing, supporting, enhancing, etc. this one application.
                        However, I am now more clear on the expected pricing structure and am more comfortable than I was previously. I would still be better served with some modifications, so I guess I'll just have to wait to see the final A5 V5.0 product and pricing to make my decision.

                        I do appreciate all the positive support and commentary on this board already and can see that Alpha definitely has a good group of folks as users, ets.
                        Keith

                        Comment


                          #13
                          RE: the REAL V5 prices

                          Keith,

                          I must be missing something here. What do you mean by "limited application distribution"? and how does that interact with "I would essentially mass-market to a focused industry group".

                          kenn
                          TYVM :) kenn

                          Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            RE: the REAL V5 prices

                            clarification on unlimited runtime:

                            you can install the runtime on an unlimited number of computers at an unlimited number of locations an unlimited number of times - you just can't have any one "network" have more than 10 copies open at the same time.

                            so for me, where my users are almost all single installations or at best 3 users, I only need one copy of 10 runtime, (although I hope there will later be a 5 user runtime.)

                            but once its paid for ONE time, it can be used an UNLIMITED number of times in an UNLIMITED number of locations.
                            Cole Custom Programming - Terrell, Texas
                            972 524 8714
                            [email protected]

                            ____________________
                            "A young man who is not liberal has no heart, but an old man who is not conservative has no mind." GB Shaw

                            Comment


                              #15
                              RE: the REAL V5 prices

                              Those who have used Alpha products have been used to the low cost pricing of the database. I think what can be scary about this whole thing, it that there was no gradual work up to this level of product or pricing. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that V4.5 was an offering to appease the restless natives and also to fund development costs. But we went from $145 to $349. And $650(I paid a lot less for the upgrade $199) for thr UNLIMITED RT to $799 for the 10 user RT. Yes even though you can install it anywhere for as many computers as you want users are not used to anything other than an UNLIMITED runtime. I think time is needed here for things to sink in. Yes those who use Alpha for a hobbie may move on. I may move on(still have no idea if I will be able to purchase the upgrade myself). Even those who run small applications for buisness may move to something different. When you make a move like this you are targeting a new class of user and you are bound to lose people. But I think people just need time to think about their next move and to wait till the OFFICIAL word comes out hopefully Friday.

                              Jamin

                              Comment

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