RE: the REAL V5 prices

[Jamin Dunivan]

RE: the REAL V5 prices

$94.57 for the upgrade!

[rtobiassen]

RE: the REAL V5 prices

Bill
Notice that I said I will be paying 40 percent more no question. As you state I hope to recover in my development time. Just wanted others to know that when we write the cheque "OUCH" is in capital letters!

Rick T

[forskare]

RE: the REAL V5 prices

Is that just Access or dies it include RT?

kenn

[Mike Konoff]

RE: the REAL V5 prices

MS advertises on its' site that upgrade for Access is $109. $299 for V5???

[Brenden Cobb]

RE: the REAL V5 prices

That's only Access, and doesn't include RT.

heckofa deal...

[Helen Freeman]

RE: the REAL V5 prices

OK guys, throw me in with the upgrade - will that help?

Just joking as i cannot put a pic here of myself easily, or see you.

seriously, pricing seems good judging from the happies and the unhappies. proportion seems to indicate majority think value is good.

Can't wait for the date, if it is real.
Helen

[Richard Rabins]

RE: the REAL V5 prices

I can't resist jumping in here.

William makes a very salient point.

Total cost for a database application is the cost for the software AND for your time.

One of the key design goals for v5 was productivity.

We are getting annecdotal feedback from beta testers (who are also very proficient with MS Access and VB) that, with v5, their development time is being cut dramatically (4-5 times quicker).

In real monetary terms, this means that with v5 a project that might take 20 hours could take 80 to hours in MS Access. So if you look at both pieces of the cost equation, v5 starts to look like a fair deal.

Another user made the point that this pricing is going to make it more difficult to reach out to brand new customers.

This is a good point that we thought long and hard about, however, it is worth noting that a database purchase decision (as we all know) is often a critical decision for a business and organization -- people want to make the right and smart choice.

Due to the fact that such a decision is such an important and complex decision, people often look at price as ONE of the factors in determing product quality.

A low price does NOT necessarily mean that it will be easier to penetrate into new customer sites.

I would like to mention that in the early days of Alpha, we used to send free copies of Alpha Three to IT folks in large companies. When we followed up with these folk after a few weeks, more often than not, they would say "I have been meaning to look at your software, but I am sorry, I have not gotten around to it yet".

We then switched to charging for these evaluation copies.

Guess what happened?

When we followed up with them after a few weeks, almost all of them had evaluated the software. You can obviously draw many conclusions from this, but it is clear that once the software was associated with a price, the perception of the software changed. The lessons that we took from this learning led us to initiate conventional direct mail campaigns promoting Alpha Four in the early part of the 90's. We mailed over 20 million!! direct mail pieces (costing about 60 cents per piece) and generated about 60 million dollars in a 5-6 year period.

We believe that conditions for aggresively and (hopefully intelligently) marketing v5 now are more favorable than they were then for the following reasons.

1. The market is substantially bigger now.
2. The competitive playing field is narrower now. We have two major competitors now -- Filemaker and MS Access. Back then we had to slug it out with dBase, Q and A, Dataease, DataFlex, Revelation, Paradox for DOS, FoxPro for DOS, Clarion, FilePro, PFS, Reflex, RapidFile and a bunch of others!
3. Back then (in the early to mid nineties) relative to the alternative products, Alpha Four offered very good ease of use, but did not have a full blown/powerful langauge. Now with v5 we have a product that has clear strenghts in the "ease of use" department, BUT also offers very high levels of power and flexibility because of a greatly enhanced xBasic and Action Scripting.

Not being able to offer a developer/user total confidence in the ultimate flexibility and extensibility offered by a development langauge, cost us sales on Alpha Four. With v5 this issue is off the table.

One final note. We are keeping Alpha Five v4.5 on the market for those folks who want a lower priced option.

Thanks for taking the time to wade through this.

We appreciate all of your support and best of luck to all of you.

Sincerely
Richard Rabins

[Keith Hubert]

RE: the REAL V5 prices

To All

As we will only need to buy one copy of the full version as a developement tool the cost of $299 I beleive is fair. Less the cost of the upgrade to 4.5. The new version what ever it is going to be called, looks good and works well, just what we wouild expect from Alpha. My problem and I get the feeling from this board that the sting in the tail is the cost of Runtimes Licenses. I think the general feeling is there should be more steps to cover the range of users and developers. Every one would like a fair crack of the whip and to make the small runtimes just beyond a lot of users will not encourage them into the Alpha Family fold.
It should not be cheap, but for the first level when you add the full version and the smallest runtime, $750 is about the limit. All of the time/cash saving benifits are hard to appreciate when we are signing a cheque as our part of the investment before either useing it our selves or selling the application to a customer.
As I am writing this, I have had this thought, maybe there should be a special package deal to include the runtime for three nodes and the development tool for say $500. Now that is not cheap and does represent good value for money with what can be acheived.

Any more thoughts?

Keith Hubert
London.

[ChrisHawkes]

RE: the REAL V5 prices

I agree!, there should be a lower runtime count. The majority of my customers are small businesses with 1-3 users. At present I have 1 customer(2 users) with Alpha who have been waiting patiently (to say the least) for the upgrade to V5 and will not pay the amount of money required with the 10 user runtime price. If there was a 3 user I know I can sell the runtime price to them. If Alpha insist on their current pricing this is one customer I will lose, and as they have been a customer of mine for 12 years this will hurt.

Overall I think the prices are OK although they seem a little steep in comparison to others. I use a wide range of software for database programming depending on application and budget. Alpha V5 will fit in better now with more of my customers, but selling it to them when they have already invested in other database software will not be easy with the high V5 prices.

[forskare]

RE: the REAL V5 prices

Chris,

Are you thinking your client should purchase the RT? If so I see your point and I agree. It's going to be tough to sell anyone who is using an existing database application and is happy with it.

The other way to approach it is that you buy the RT and distribute RT w/the app. Then the cost of the 10 user RT is spread out over x number of clients. This is how business approaches upgrading their equipment. They ask, "how many jobs will it take to break even?"

It's a thought.

ken

[Jamin Dunivan]

RE: the REAL V5 prices

Actually. Doesnt Access let you create a runtime version for free? To be used on any computers. I'm not sure if it is networkable without new lic..

Jamin

[Keith Hubert]

RE: the REAL V5 prices

Ken

This mathermatical formular of how many realy applies to the number of applications that are out there that you think you can upgrade, the rest is just wishfull thinking and calculated guess work. What if I had a $1,000,000 I could do lots of things!!!

Keith Hubert
London

[Beltronics]

RE: the REAL V5 prices

I read this whole thread and I am more confused about pricing now than ever! Sorry, I must be thick.

As posted by Bill Warner yesterday.

OK, folks, here are the prices per Richard Rabins:

Upgrade New User
Single User $299 $349
3 pack $749 $849
5 pack $1099 $1249

Now, I upgraded to V4.5 and paid the $299 (or was it $300). Now, if I want the new V5.0, I need to pay the difference between $1099 and $299? (I have a 5 user network pack). That means I need to pay $800 for the upgrade from 4.5 to 5.0??

I was really under the impression I was paying for Version 5.0 when I paid for the Version 4.5. Was I mislead or just stupid?

[Keith B]

RE: the REAL V5 prices

It seems like for me as a new user to buy A5ver 5.0 and a 10 user Runtime option it is going to cost me $1,148.00 to get my new project started. All other issues and considerations aside (quality, ease of use, development time saved, future potential, etc.,etc.) that at this price, I have no other option than to bow out gracefully. I just can't play on that level for a start-up project as a new user. It may not be much money to some and it may not be much in the grand scheme of things but it's too much for me at this time. Thanks for your time and comments. bye

[David Day]

RE: the REAL V5 prices

You know, my time is worth alot more than the difference between Access upgrade price and Alpha 5. Just think about it. More power less time, I don't know about you guys but that's pretty awesome. Here's a great comparison. Let's take a trip from New York to San Francisco. I will take the Concorde and you guys get in your car and let's make that a volkswagon. LOL. You can save the money but I will get there a lot quicker than you and certainly enjoy the ride. Chances are also that you have a better chance at having an accident then I will. Have a nice long trip!!! I'll be in San Francisco partying while you cheap guys are on the slow road. Good luck!!!