Cannot add key to tag

[[email protected]]

I am still struggling with on-going problems on my LAN Network (3Users) system of A5V4.

I have tried all the suggestions so far - so many thanks for the contributions, however, nothing has worked.

I have narrowed it down (I think!)

When two of the workstations are trying to add and SAVE data at the same time the system responds by:

Hanging for ages and then "cannot add key to tag", or occasionally "illegal operation" appears and the workstation closes the program.

With all the workstations off and only working on the main Server I have been able to add copious amounts of data with no problems.

Does anyone have any other suggestions for me to try?..........please.

Linda D. Cox

[Bill Warner]

RE: Cannot add key to tag

Sorry if I'm repeating what you've tried (you might want to post what you've tried that hasn't worked).

This error usually means that an index needs updating. Are you using Network Optimization? If not, you should be, simply because it makes the program MUCH faster.

If you are, are you sure that when you update indexes that they are updating on the server? I ask, because I ran into a case where I had created a script for updating indexes, and had an error in the script that caused the indexes to be updated on the workstation, and NOT the server. This caused all sorts of problems. You can check by seeing if there are any *.CDX files in the Shadow directory (there should NOT be).

How does the system respond if you are only working on one workstation? If one works fine, what about the other one by itself? If there is a significant difference (other than what you would expect if one is a faster machine), you might have a bad network card. This is rare, but it does happen.

Another way to help narrow down the problem is to create a simple form with only a couple fields on it (or, only enter data in one or two fields). My thinking here is that, if it's a bad index, some fields might work fine while others don't.

[[email protected]]

RE: Cannot add key to tag

Thanks for your response Bill.

I keep updating my indexes (every time I have a problem) but it doesn't help.

I wasn't using Optimization but I am now. This morning I updated the shadow on one machine and then I found it couldn't find a file. this evening I deleted the shadow file and re-optimized and that bit works okay now, so I don't know the reason for that?

I do update the indexes on the server and I make sure all the remotes are closed down.

If I check whether there are any *.CDX files on the workstations is it okay to delete them?

I have just been working in only a workstation - just to see what happened, and yep I got "cannot add key to tag again" so I am back on the server.

Thanks for your help.

Linda D.

[[email protected]]

RE: Cannot add key to tag

I have just been to check whether I have any *.CDX files on the remotes and I have - a lot, even in the shadow directory!!

Can I delete them all?

Also I still have the Alpha 4 version on the remotes from the upgrade. Will this effect things?

Many thanks

Linda D.

[russ Boehle]

RE: Cannot add key to tag

You probably should get confirmation from someone else but I don't think the cdx's should be on the local machines. If this is correct this may be the problem. Do a search on this board for shadow or network optimize and see if there is any good info. The manuals are strangely sitent on this even though it is a major issue.
I am going to add this to the list of things for the manual requested by Richard Rabins. If these files should not be there then you need to determine why they are being created.

Good luck
Russ

[JohnZaleski]

RE: Cannot add key to tag

A few questions:
Let's assume that Machine "A" has the data stored on its drive and Machine "A" accesses its own data and there are no problems (Life is beautiful) .
When Machine "B" (no data stored on its drive) is accessing the data at the same time as Machine "A", is that causing the problems???? Or is it when machine "C" is accessing the data at the same time as Machine "A" is that when the problem occurs? Or is it when Machine ("B" or "C" all alone)(Machine "A" is out of the picture) accesses the data is that when the problems occur. Or is it when (either Machine "A" or Machine "B") accesses the data at the same time as Machine "A" that the problems occur??? If the problems only occur when EITHER machine is accessing the data at the same time as Machine "A" my feeling would be that there is a potential problem with the network card on Machine "A". If it were me, I would not hesitate to have my network person replace the NIC card on Machine "A". The cards do not cost enough to justify the gray hairs that you will get from not trying this. It seems like too much coincidence that both machines "B" and "C" could have a bad network card so try Machine "A".

Finally ask yourself the following questions:
1) Do the problems only exist when you are entering data simultaneously from several machines??
2) If that is the case is it from only from Machine "A" or "B" or either ???
3) Are you allowing deleting of records during data entry??
4) You haven't shown us what the indexes look like for the problemactic table. Feed that info back to the board.
5) Do you have CAT 5 cabling between the computers????? Ask whoever did the cabling.
6) Do You have the combined software and hardware experince to track down a rather insiduous problem or should you seek out a competent Alpha consultant????

Good Luck
John

[[email protected]]

RE: Cannot add key to tag

Hi John

Answers to your questions:
1. Yes, the problems only occur when entering data simultaneously from several machines.
2. Either a+b or a+c or b+c etc.
3. Records are not allowed to be deleted during data entry.
4. I have taken out as many indexes as possible so I don't yet know what effect this may have.
5. Yes I have CAT 5 Cabling between the computers (I put it in!!)
6. No I do not have enough experience so.......

This morning I had my system fully checked over by an "expert" and he could find nothing untoward with the hardware and network set up but he did ask the following.

It is necessary to have NetBEUI as well as TCP/IP on all machines. I seem to remember that I needed NetBEUI with A4?

Also, would it improve things if I speeded up my Network? I am currently using two hubs of 10mgs with Network cards in all PC's of 10/100.

On my machine (the server) I tend to work with several programs open i.e. Outlook, Word, Excel and sometimes Quick Books! My system resource runs at around 75% but with these open it reduces to just over 50%.

I have 256 of ram with a pentium III processor but could this be causing some of my problems.

Would it be advisable to have a seperate server for A5?

I would appreciate your thoughts.

Many thanks

Linda.D.
p.s.I have also deleted the .cdx files from the shadow directories on the remotes.

[[email protected]]

RE: Cannot add key to tag

Hi

I have just had another crash so whether this is relevant I don't know.

Error message 20 on one remote inputting data. No other user was using A5 although one other remote had it open.

When I asked for the remotes to be turned OFF and I tried to edit A5 it said that another user was using it.

When I re-booted my PC it said that there were still six files open even though all other machines were off?

Thanks

Linda D.

[JohnZaleski]

RE: Cannot add key to tag

Linda,

I'm not sure what the error 20 meant. But the situations where you get the problems (multiple entry and now a single machine on which the data does not reside) all point to possible network problems with machine "A" ( cable or nic ).

Others may have better ideas, but what you might try is temporarily moving the data to machine "B" or "C" and just running "B" and "C" (leave "A" out of the picture.)If you try this, make sure that you do the database compact on the machine that you move the stuff to. If You are using network optimazation, you will want to do it again pointing to the app on the new machine.

You also might try reinstalling Alpha on each individial machine. Without looking at your app, my guttest feeling is that it's a network thing. I could be completely wrong on this. Does your app have a lot of scripts?

Why not tell the board the geographical area you're in and see if there are any local Alpha consultants with network experience. Keep in mind that you can have network problems existing that may not effect any other program that you are running because they do not constantly share data across the network. That is why I suggested changing the NIC on "A" regardless of whether it appears to be having other problems.

Good Luck,
John

[[email protected]]

RE: Cannot add key to tag

Thanks John I will try putting the data on one of the remotes to see what happens. I have tried taking the software off and reloading it - might be worth doing it again I guess.

Did you have any thoughts on my previous message?

Regards

Linda D.

[JohnZaleski]

RE: Cannot add key to tag

I don't know if netbui is necessary, but it shouldn't hurt anything if it's there . Certainly it's better if you had a separate server, but I woudn't move in that direction until this problem is solved. It's my understanding that the problems arise very quickly to immediately if you are doing anything but entering data on the server machine all alone. Let us know if moving the data to "B" or "C" allows those two machines to simultaneously enter data with no problems.

[JohnZaleski]

RE: Cannot add key to tag

Linda,

Although It still sounds to me like you have potential network problems, here's something else. Alpha is releasing a5v4.5 next week (see thread "a5v4.5 has gone gold")
There are improvements in the engine that are supposed to greatly reduce index corruption ( not that you can't still get them if you illegally shut down Alpha). It sounds like they are using the database engine designed for a5v5 without all the enhanced features. Sounds like something you should do.

John

[Finian Lennon]

RE: Cannot add key to tag

Linda:

In the FWIW category ... I just saw an Error 20 message for the first time this afternoon. I don't know precisely what causes it but, based on my experience today, I'd say it's indicative of some pretty serious corruption in the data dictionary of one of the tables in the set where the error is occurring or in the set itself.

After I saw the error I could not (a)edit the set (unable to find ..... errors), (2) recreate the indexes on the principal set tables. (any attempt to reindex or recreate produced the Error 20) or open the data dictionary for a table where many of the associated scripts were stored. I had a backup from the start of the day which, when I restored all the individual tables from the set, got rid of the errors and restored the set to fuctioning condition. However the data dictionary for a table where I store scripts, but which is NOT part of the set, was hosed beyond recovery, so I lost a whole bunch of today's coding. I know, backup as you go but today ....

In any event, perhaps your problem is different but If I were you I would want to be sure that I can open and edit/design all forms, indexes, scripts etc. on the server. If they are all OK, then the corruption may just be on the workstation and you should completely wipe out the shadow structure and allow A5 to rebuild it.

Finian