Memo's - A Matter of Opinion

[Stephen Williams]

I recently met with Sylvia Tobias and we looked at each others work and now I have decided to integrate as much letter writing and proposal packaging as I can.

This will need a bunch of memo fields which are not very stable. The conventional wisdom of this board recommends putting them in a seperate file linked one to one.

First Question: Since each job will need several memo fields for different purposes would you suggest one memo table with multiple one to one links, or multiple memo tables each with a single one to one link?

Second Question Since I like the idea of using different fonts, bolding, underlining and etc I am drawn to RTF memos. But these things can bleed...[/b] (I am playing with Cal's HTML notes from the Archive...hopefully it will work)

Now that every one is either travelling or packing or preparing for the conference there won't be anyone left to chip in till next week...but then maybe this message won't have scrolled out of view, either!

Unlike a few of the participants if the boozy comments are anything to go by! Wish I were there...

Steve

[Stephen Williams]

RE: Memo's - A Matter of Opinion

talking about bleeding...where's the first aid, Cal?

[Elliott Lester]

RE: Memo's - A Matter of Opinion

Stephen:

Why do you think your package needs memo fields. We do
some very complex proposals--all through the A5's report generator.

We have pre formatted language, language on the fly,
numbers, dollar amounts, totals you name it. And
we do not use memo's.

Why not try walking through your design assessments on the board for all to jump in and talk about the whys and wherefores.

Good luck

[Stephen Williams]

RE: Memo's - A Matter of Opinion

Hmmm, Elliott
...pre formatted language,
...language on the fly,
...numbers,
...dollar amounts,
...totals
...you name it
- I'm willing, but nervous.

I have an estimating application that needs to produce a proposal.

The top table in the set is JOB, linking to PHASE, linking to TC.
The PHASE->TC is where i create various task assemblies of labor, material, equipment and subcontractors.
I can combine any number of PHASE records into an Assembly Group, an example might be "Irrigation" (combines valves, heads, controller assemblies etc)
I combine the PHASE records by using the same TYPEN number, as opposed to PHASEID which keeps each task assembly together.
MEMO #1 I have a GROUP TITLE character field in the PHASE record and I then have a memo field to write lavish prose about the specifics of this assembly group. (I only allow one GROUP TITLE per TYPEN number, per JOB)

Let's work with this, as if I can get this out of a memo, I can probably go the rest of the way.

Right now I have a simple memo field (not RTF) which I put into an RTF on the report. I use the RTF report object so I can bold the GROUP TITLE and then have the memo text flow on and it looks as good as a Wordstar document (better as I never owned Wordstar, but you get my point).

To work without the memo I MIGHT use character fields for each SENTENCE, but with from 3 to 15 sentences (is that enough?) per description I would probably need to create a child table to give me sufficient scope for verbiage. I definitely need more than 255 characters per assembly group.

Regardless of where they were, it would seem to be a mess to have a string of sentence fields on a form, or an embedded browse...Is this a higher price than tight linking to a memo table?

What other thoughts are out there?

Steve

[Peter.Greulich]

RE: Memo's - A Matter of Opinion

I really wonder with all this bad press (unfounded rumors?) about memo fields, how many people actually have had a serious problem with non-rtf memo fields in ver. 4? I don't remember anyone saying they they actually personally had a memo field corruption in ver.4. Well, ok, maybe once. In my experience - no problems with data loss or corruption, and I use them every day in a number of different tables.

[whanigsberg]

RE: Memo's - A Matter of Opinion

Every time Peter makes that point I am moved to add "me too."

Bill

[Stephen Williams]

RE: Memo's - A Matter of Opinion

Which is why I started this thread...

I find Rich Text Memo's (I am playing with them now) ARE messy - as soon as the form goes into edit mode they bleed through tabbed objects (which I am making good use of) and make the application feel flimsy.

Hence I have decided NOT to use Rich Text in tables or forms...

QUESTION: Is V5 less haemorrhagic than V4?

I am currently working up a seperate table of memo notes, where I have one table for multiple note types. I then open the note in a dialog box to edit it. Meanwhile each note "type" shows on the form in view only subforms.

So far it's working, but my form is fairly involved... I like the control over editing, but I am having to be careful to close dialog boxes.

[whanigsberg]

RE: Memo's - A Matter of Opinion

The only problem with rich text memo fields is (as I learned to my sorrow) you are unable to manage them using xbasic methods. Hence, I use them only when I really want to store formatting. Otherwise, no which means almost never.

One other point: I have not experienced the bleed-through problems you mention. Wonder why?

Bill

[Peter.Greulich]

RE: Memo's - A Matter of Opinion

Bill, not so fast. Read on...


Msg ID: 26379
Subject: RE: Retrieve external memo field?
Author: Jack Wheeler
Date: 08-27-2000 16:31
File:

Tom, I love the RTF fields and they are the only memo field I use. If I need to append or import into another table, I simply begin typing the field with a "-" and then I simply use the append_memo function with both requirements (binary and memo? I do not remember these options You need them both) then I use the At() function--> finding the first "-" and in my case I look for only one sentence which would end with a period. I know this seems bumpy but it works FAST and reliable.

Here is a code I use. This is a quotation module where I have an addendum sheet that uses the RTF field. This is necessary so that I can highlight important features or selling points. When I type the Words I have to remember to type the first sentence as a summary. Example would be
-Install irrigation system to the front and Rear Yard. Irrigation system would consist of Schedule 40 pipe and 4" toro popup irrigation heads. Every valve would be constructed with Grey Schedule 80 PVC pipe and measure 14" above the existing ground level.........

The actual quote has the line "Install irrigation system to the front and rear yard" There is in bold print at bottom of contract a mention to see the addendum sheet for specifics.

Anyway here is my solution for doing many tasks one only!
''XBasic

dim t as p
dim ix as p
t=table.open("quotesitem",FILE_RO_SHARED)
query.order=""
query.description=""
query.filter="phonacc=var->phone"
ix=t.query_create()
t.fetch_first()
filename = a_db_current_path+"memos.txt"

'goto start

if file.exists(filename) then
file.remove(filename)
end if
fil = file.create(filename, file_rw_exclusive)
fil.close()
while .not.t.fetch_eof()
fil = file.open(filename,file_rw_exclusive)
size = file.bytes_get()
fil.seek(size)
fil.write_line("")
fil.write_line(t.phonacc)
if substr(str(t.qty,8,2),AT(".",str(t.qty,8,2),1)+1,1)"0" then
fil.WRITE_line(str(t.qty,8,2))
else
fil.WRITE_Line(str(t.qty,8,0))
end if
fil.write_line(str(t.price,8,2))
fil.write_line(t.each)
fil.flush()
fil.close()
t.description.memo_write_to_file(filename,MEMO_BINARY+MEMO_APPEND)
t.fetch_next()
end while
t.close()
'start:
dim t1 as p
dim number as c
dim qty as n
dim price as n
dim each as c
dim descrip as c
t1=table.open("quotesitem1")
fil = file.open(filename,FILE_RO_EXCLUSIVE)
number=fil.read_line()
number1=fil.read_line()
qty=val(fil.read_line())
price=val(fil.read_line())
each=fil.read_line()
descrip = fil.read_line()
'descrip = substr(descrip,1,AT(".",descrip,1)-1)
DESCRIP=ALLTRIM(DESCRIP)
descrip =RIGHT(ALLTRIM(DESCRIP),LEN(DESCRIP)-AT("-",DESCRIP,1))
DESCRIP=LEFT(DESCRIP,AT(".",DESCRIP,1))
T1.enter_BEGIN()
t1.phonacc=number1
t1.qty=qty
t1.price=price
t1.each=each
t1.calcnotes=descrip
t1.enter_end(.t.)
while .not. fil.eof()
number1=fil.read_line()
qty=val(fil.read_line())
price=val(fil.read_line())
each=fil.read_line()
descrip = fil.read_line()
'descrip = substr(descrip,1,AT(".",descrip,1)-1)
DESCRIP = ALLTRIM(DESCRIP)
descrip = RIGHT(ALLTRIM(DESCRIP),LEN(DESCRIP)-AT("-",DESCRIP,1))
DESCRIP=LEFT(DESCRIP,AT(".",DESCRIP,1))
T1.enter_BEGIN()
t1.phonacc=number1
t1.qty=qty
t1.price=price
t1.each=each
t1.calcnotes=descrip
t1.enter_end(.t.)
end while
t1.close()
fil.close()

[Stephen Williams]

RE: Memo's - A Matter of Opinion

WOW! - and I thought it would only be happening in a pub in Boston tonight! (Or is this where this really came from...)

I will have to digest this one - I think I will be swimming in deep water (for me) but it sounds potentious. (I'm practicing my Bush speak since he may be the man (!?))

Any more?

Steve

[Peter.Greulich]

RE: Memo's - A Matter of Opinion

This is neither here nor there, but, since I live in greater Boston, and the A5 conference is about 7-miles from my house, I've just come home to go jogging and have dinner. At 8:00pm tonight the conference continues with group workshops. Excellent, excellent stuff! How great to meet in person, so many of the people that regularly appear on this board, including many of the Alpha luminaries and Alpha staff programmers. Selwyn's presentation of ver. 5 knocked everyone's socks off! The whole show is being recorded on CD so it should be avaialable to all in the near future.

[Stephen Williams]

RE: Memo's - A Matter of Opinion

"The whole show is being recorded on CD so it should be avaialable to all in the near future"

-Music to my ears!

Steve

[John Oesterle]

RE: Memo's - A Matter of Opinion

Steve -
I think I've commented on this before, but I have a client proposal app running now for at least three years with NO stablility or corruption problems. I do things like import boilerplate text, duplicate for revisions and duplicate as templates (using xbasic I might add) and the thing has remained stable. There are other shortcomings and frustrations, but not stability. I DO limit the app to a single authoring workstation...and copy out to the server a "mirror" for readonly viewing & query by the rest of the world.

I have not seen the bleeding either...but in my case the proposal creation form is relatively simple with NO tabs or conditional objects. I'd say certainly do not rule out RT memos out of hand. And, they get better in v5.
- John O

[Stan Mathews]

RE: Memo's - A Matter of Opinion

One of the things that came out of the conference was that memo fields in V5 would be "fixed". The memo field editor that appears will be modal in that once a memo edit is begun, it must be completed before any other action can be started. There were also comments that the best way to handle memo creation was to save an empty memo and then allow the user to edit same.

[Jim Rowlen]

RE: Memo's - A Matter of Opinion

We USED to have problems with memo fields. We finally decided to take beta testing of v5 from a single station to a full production environment. Memo fields are so stable there that I've actually added a few more (now somewhere around 8 in one of the 200+ field master tables) with no problems. We did some brief testing in v4.5 without problems either. Haven't used any RTF tho. We switched back to v5 just because I like it more and I run the computer department.

And, as I've said a few times before re different features in v5, if you want it "It's in there."