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refresh does not???

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    refresh does not???

    refresh shadow does not ??

    i thought i knew all about peer to peer networking
    but this has me stumped

    the refresh shadow does'nt

    the working server has c:a5v4myapp

    the workstation has c:a5v4shadowmyapp

    the workstation was created as per network optimazition instructions

    on workstation i opened a5v4, when box comes to select database,
    i selected d:a5v4myapp (d is mapped to c: on server)
    then select file, optimize
    this works

    next just for testing purposes i'll close a5v4, reopen to c:a5v4shadowmyapp
    and it works, then go to file/select refresh, this will work,

    i'v rebooted both machines. and refresh still works

    over night i shut down both computers,
    today, i start both computers, network is connected, i start a5
    on workstation, all ok,
    try refresh and nothing happens, then try running my app and get

    message can't locate c:a5v4myapp

    myapp is c:a5v4shadowmyapp !

    what am i doing wrong??
    one of my goals this weekend was to solve this conundrum

    i thought it had to the mapping, but that did not change

    is there an editable file i can work with in this

    i would really appreciate any input on this setup

    if anything needs clarification please let me know

    very frustrated w/refresh

    thank you all for your contibutions


    #2
    RE: refresh does not???

    John, you said:

    today, i start both computers, network is connected, i start a5
    on workstation, all ok, try refresh and nothing happens, then try running my app and get message can't locate c:a5v4myapp

    I'm afraid you need to offer more details.

    Are you trying to refresh off the file menu, or are you trying to do in Xbasic?

    If it's in Xbasic, do you have the path to the server hard coded into your script?

    -- tom

    Comment


      #3
      RE: refresh does not???

      hi, tom

      thanks for your response

      yes i'm doing the refresh from the file menu
      have'nt gotten to the the point of doing from xbasic

      it's all being done manually
      when i start it from the workstation i'm using
      the box that ask's for the db to open

      it has the right path when i start it i.e. c:a5v4shadowmyapp
      and starts to run, i then go to the file menu and refresh and nothing will
      happen. althought somthing is going on cause i can hear hard drive for
      a few moments, the i try starting the app from the file menu
      and get that message.

      after i optimize again all is okay, when i run optimize (or refresh when it works
      a lot of transferring is going (the status bar indicates all)

      hope this explains enough, if not let me know

      like i said i'v done enough peer to peers to fill whatever, but i
      have never encountered this or been able to figure out

      most other apps have an ini file to change the paths when installs
      don't go righth, so i'm stumped

      i have even done clean installs of the workstation and server

      thanks again, hope i left some clues to the solution

      Comment


        #4
        RE: refresh does not???

        John, it almost sounds as though when you start the shadowed copy on the local workstation that your workstation cannot "see" the server. Are you certain that the network connection was present when you attempted the refresh?

        -- tom

        Comment


          #5
          RE: refresh does not???

          absolutely
          i'm connected
          if i go to explorer or network neighorhood i see the server

          also when i close down both and start up windows log on
          shows i'm okay or i would get the can't find server message

          if i reboot both, all is okay,i can refresh

          i did the problem again and it definatly happens when i shut down

          even when i restart after both are shut down i can
          use a5 with no problem, it's only the refresh that causes the problem

          i can use a5 and the apps after shut down, network is connected

          i still think theirs a command somwhere in the adb possible that has not
          set itself to the right path

          it comes back any tells me can't find c:a5v4myapp , when i don't
          have that on the workstation, by that i mean i dont' have a folder
          c:a5v4myapp , i have a folder c:a5v4shadowmyapp
          but c:a5v4myapp is on the server

          something is wrong in a pointer somewhere

          thanks for your help, keep it up, i know it's a puzzle

          Comment


            #6
            RE: refresh does not???

            let me add onother thought

            in the old dos days i would set up networks. and the servers
            d drive as the shared drive

            the ws would only have a c parition, and the pointer would be from the
            ws c drive to the servers d drive , never had a problem even in windows
            i would still set it up as c drive local, shared server drive d

            for some reason i thought i could set up ws c and server as shared c

            maybe that's the problem

            does every one still follow that protocol and i should not have set
            up the server on c drive as shared but as onther drive (like in novell
            f drive) this requires set up various logical drives on the server

            am i on the right track??

            please help

            thanks

            Comment


              #7
              RE: refresh does not???

              yup i believe that's the ticket

              i moved the whole thing to server d drive shared

              optimized from ws c drive

              shut down both computers

              re started and from the ws kicked in a5

              ran refresh and it refreshed

              can you multi-users out there confirm that the appropriate
              shared drive on the server is never c but some other drive letter
              not on the local computer,
              just looking for affirmation at this point

              i goofed in setting it up as server c shared

              thanks tom for making me think the extra step
              as usual i boxed myself in a thought process
              and with alittle proding went in different direction to get the
              right answer

              Comment


                #8
                RE: refresh does not???

                I've never seen a server drive referred to as c: but we're not using peer-to-peer.
                There can be only one.

                Comment


                  #9
                  RE: refresh does not???

                  John, I confess I know enough about networks to be dangerous. i.e. not very much!

                  Here's how I setup an Alpha Five database on my network:

                  Server:
                  I create a shared folder on the C: drive of the server and store my database there. (C:Mydatabase for example) This folder must be visible to the local workstation over my network.


                  Workstation:
                  I "map" a local drive letter to the database folder on the server. I don't map to the server's C: drive. I map to the Mydatabase folder on the Server's C: drive. It's given its own drive letter on the local machine.

                  Alpha Five
                  I install A5 on the workstation, not on the server.

                  I start A5 locally, and then "open" the database on the server.

                  I then go to the A5 control panel and "network optimize" back to the local workstation. I accept all defaults for local folder names...

                  I close Alpha Five.

                  I restart Alpha Five, and open the local "shadowed" copy of the database. If it doesn't work, I start investigating... Usually it starts right up without difficulty.


                  Shortcut on Desktop
                  Once I've verified that the local shadowed copy of the database will work, I use Windows Explorer to open the shadowed database folder. I create a shortcut to the shadowed database and drag it to the desktop. This is used ever after to start the database.


                  I'm sorry if all of this is obvious to everyone.

                  -- tom

                  Comment


                    #10
                    RE: refresh does not???

                    okay i'm confused

                    thanks tom for your detailed install proc

                    you don't install a5 on the server
                    does that mean a user can not use a5 on the server???

                    i'd like to take one step at time

                    this is a dedicated server--no user's

                    this is going to blow me away

                    please continue with your patience

                    Comment


                      #11
                      RE: refresh does not???

                      i forgot

                      the moving to the d drive on a peer to peer network
                      did not resolve the problem after all

                      maybe your on the right track with your explanation
                      and look forward to your response

                      thanks for staying with me on this

                      Comment


                        #12
                        RE: refresh does not???

                        john carrio wrote:
                        -------------------------------
                        you don't install a5 on the server, does that mean a user can not use a5 on the server???


                        Yes. Exactly. In my case I'm using the runtime engine, and install it on each workstation... but never on the server. (I use the term server loosely. Often it's just a specific workstation on a peer to peer LAN, in which case I select one which doesn't get used much).

                        Alpha Five is loaded *from the local workstation*, it then runs whatever database is opened. If I pick the original database which was previously installed on the server, performance suffers, but it runs. Performance is enhanced by network optimizing the database, and then running alpha Five against the local shadowed copies of the database, instead of opening the actual database tables, forms, layouts, dictionaries and so on on the server.

                        Other network ready multi-user applications run *from the server*. Each workstation with permission logs on to the server and runs the application there. This is *not* how I do it with Alpha Five. If I were to attempt such a thing, network optimization wouldn't help me much cause my local workstation would have to crank up Alpha Five on the server, then browse to and "open" the shadowed tables on the workstation, which in turn would browse to and "open" the real tables on the server. If this what you're doing I'm not surprised you begin to see pathing issues crop up.

                        John, don't misunderstand me. It's *possible* to install Alpha Five on the server and then use it locally (with server's keyboard and mouse) to do development work or even data. (Others have commented here on this being a poor setup, since conflicts can occur with the rest of the folks using the database out there on the network, especially during development... but it is possible) However, I would not recommend using that copy of Alpha Five from a remote work station over the LAN.

                        I hope this helps, cause I can't break it down any further...

                        -- tom

                        Comment


                          #13
                          RE: refresh does not???

                          have been using peer to peer networking since a year without any problem.

                          i have NEVER optimized (no shadow) or mapped a drive . i think it is
                          not required on a small networking system.

                          on the server have a shared folder:
                          "a5datashare".

                          on server i start with normal icon on desktop:
                          c:A5V4Alpha5.exe c:a5v4a5 datanivaco.adb -splash=nivaco.bmp

                          on the 4 workstations: startup with icon on desktop with path to the
                          machine name/ full path of location of exe file / full path of
                          shared folder / control panel (adb)

                          works like a charm..

                          hope this helps.

                          v.p

                          Comment


                            #14
                            RE: refresh does not???

                            thank you tom & vasant for your insightful & enlightning
                            explanations of your network setup

                            it is very helpful to see how others have handeled this situation

                            i think my problem turns out to be the terrible network
                            procedure a5 has published

                            now where did it mention peer to peer or dedicated
                            or what the install procedure would be each (i think i'm right
                            on this)

                            windows comes with it's own peer to peer network,
                            which is great for small companies with 6 or less computers

                            every software app i have installed in the last 5 years
                            came with instructions for peer to peer (windows) and dedictaed
                            such as novell/nt, most load the program on each computer and read the
                            data on the workstation/server and have no prblem with speed

                            if the only instructions a5 gave me is to optimize/refresh
                            what else should i think is the procedure

                            i don't have a problem with vasants setup, i don't think it's inferior
                            using today's p111, 500mhz i don't see that as problem reading data from
                            the server.

                            i do think alpha should have prepared better documentation for
                            networking, it seem they only think about a dedictaed server which
                            to me is unthinkable. i do think it's to much to ask small businesses
                            to invest in a stand alone server, i thought that went out years ago

                            if it sounds like i'm peeved, i am, about alpha's poor, misdirected
                            networking install procedure, and the total time wasted in trying
                            to optimize somthing that can't be refreshed

                            did i miss somthing from alpha on networking??
                            i sure would like to be wrong on this

                            again thanks tom & vasant, i really appreciate the time it took
                            for you to put out your information

                            this is still a great board and will stick with a5
                            but and really,really dissapointed in them on this

                            Comment


                              #15
                              RE: refresh does not???

                              John, take a look at pg. 22-24 of What's New in version 4 for a discussion of how to setup and use network optimization...

                              -- tom

                              Comment

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