Need your advice please

[Dermot]

RE: Need your advice please

Hi Mickey

I agree with you on the forum but not on the runtime licensing.

If Alpha were to start charging for each program a developer distributes, that would kill any chance of Alpha Five getting developers to switch to Alpha Five.

When it comes to choosing a development tool there are many to choose from and the one thing they all have in common is royalty free runtimes. If a developer is trying to decide on what tool to develope his next app in, he is less likely to choose the one that is going to cost him for every copy he distributes.

I think Alpha Five has a big advantage over some of these other tools and I would hate to see that advantage lost due to cost. A lot of people base there dicissions on cost regardless of what the other benefit are. They will go with the cheaper option.

I remember when Alpha was about to release the WAS and they were going to charge for the server license by the user count. Well this met with a lot of resistence and they change it to unlimited users. I am glad they did this because it would have made it very difficult to get developers to start using WAS to create web apps especially when there are other options out there (none as easy as WAS) that don't cost anything, not even a onetime server fee.

Runtime fees may make sense for a vertical market product but not for a product like Alpha Five.

Anyway I just thought I would share my views on this matter.

Regards

Dermot

[Dermot]

RE: Need your advice please

Here in Canada you can purchase Alpha Five version 5.0 in Staples for $99 CAD.

Would be nice to see the latest version available though.

Dermot

[catplus]

RE: Need your advice please

Hello Dermot:

Just curious! If you sell your application to one client with 4 users and another with 9 users, do you charge them the same rate?

Mickey

[forskare]

RE: Need your advice please

Hi Mickey,

Alpha's RT charges varies depening on how many seats are purchased. Check out this link.

kenn

http://www.alphasoftware.com/shop/prodlist.asp?TYPEID=12&TYPE=Alpha+Five+Version+6+Products

[Dermot]

RE: Need your advice please

Hi Mike

I charge one price fo a single another for a 3 pack and another for a 5 pack and so om. But that is a totally different issue. That is how many users within a company can use my software to create estimates for example or how many machines they can install it on. Just like if I have 5 Alpha Five developers, I would need 5 Alpha Five licenses. I don't care how many estimates my customers can create with with my software. I don't care if they do $20,000 worth of work a year or $20,000,000.

If I understand you correctly, you mean that Alpha Software should charge developers for every copy of a program they create with Alpha Five and distribute. Well my view is that would kill it.

Yes they do control how many users can connect to a runtime database at one time with their runtime pricing but again that is a different issue.

Regards

Dermot

[Steve Wood]

RE: Need your advice please

Mickey;

I have to disagree with all of your proposals, except the one about DataEase being in the stoneage (ex DE developer). I have the same reasons as posted above about the RT pricing.

But also on the forum; its vital that Alpha NOT moderate the forum. They, after all, are NOT the experts in using the software, we are. I mean that literally. They might have greater knowledge of how a particular function works, but they do not have the 'in the trenches' experience of working with hundreds of projects and clients.

If someone posted a question, and a particular Alpha agent was assigned to respond, it would cool user participation because who can argue with an assigned expert moderator? I don't want Alpha to respond unless I am reporting a bug or the question is about WHY Alpha works in a particular way (or no one else can answer a particular question). I want them focused on the next version, fixing bugs and making Alpha more popular (PR, etc.).

I know that we would probably frustrate an Alpha moderator by occassionally telling them we did not like this or that function or method. We can tell that soft of thing to each other because we won't take it personally. We can discuss the pros and cons more easily because we aren't burdonded by what we would actually have to do to the Alpha code.

On the DataEase forum, I have received personal calls from the Sapphire developers telling me not to discuss particular issues because it might affect sales - that's what happens when the owner moderates the forum.

[forskare]

RE: Need your advice please

Hi Steve,

Very well put. I couldn't agree more!!

kenn

[Raymond Lyons]

For the most part I agree with Steve, especially on the RT pricing. As for the forums, the way Alpha staff have participated in recent years is just fine--there is nothing wrong with them responding as opposed to anyone else responding. Lord knows if a response by an staff member is not the best, there are plenty of user experts who won't hesitate to jump in. As for Mickey's comment that some "do not hide their intolerance towards others, etc.", yes that's true, but I think we all deal with that kind of thing pretty well, and I for one would not want a monitor to stop what can sometimes result in interesting discussions, in spite of the arrogance, intolerance, etc. Hey, it takes all kinds to make life interesting.

Ray Lyons

[dbabin]

My thoughts

Richard,

I have bought Alpha Software switching over from Dbase Version 5.7 windows. They do have an up to date software package, but the trial did not impress me as Alpha 5 Version 7's did.

The primary item I have not seen in the community (and I may not know where to look) is libraries of scripts used by current developers they have found helpful in developing applications. The code you can capture from the tool is great, but code developed by developers in the field to handle generic issues would be helpful, especially to new developers to Alpha 5 as myself. I hope if I actually begin developing apps for clients with Alpha 5 that my library of scripts will be useful to others, but I am sure it will mimic what the tool does.

Directly on your question, I think advertising and redirects from sites such as download.com would be very helpful. I do understand the charging for runtimes, but quite frankly the ability to distribute my Dbase applications as exe's with no runtime charges is why I used it for so long in many instances. It is a great revenue item for the company. A difficult choice.

Thanks,

Enjoying learning the software. If I can port this client over to Alpha 5 after being on Dbase since 1992, I will be thoroughly impressed with the product. I have found that clients go with what a developer recommends if the result meets their needs. Having the clients awareness of the software would be helpful too.

Dave B

[dbabin]

Found a whole bunch of code

Richard,

Found a bunch of code while perusing the forum. Cancel that caveat of mine in my original post.

Dave Babin

[[email protected]]

When you're creating applications with Alpha Five, you might have encountered the 'what's Alpha?' question from clients and other developers. We've decided to step up a public relations campaign to make Alpha's database tools more familiar in the developer community, and we'd like to ask for your advice.

We're trying to identify a dozen or so 'A List' publications (print and online) that developers read most carefully for discussions of new software tools and technologies. Based on what you tell us, we'll focus our attention on getting visibility where it counts--which might not be in the obvious places.

We have a pretty good idea about many of the names that should be on this 'A List,' of course. But your feedback will help us fill in the gaps and make sure we know who the real thought-leaders are for application developers like yourself.

To help out, please list the top 3-5 publications, blogs, and forums that you personally feel have the most useful discussions of software tools for developers:

___________________
____________________
____________________
_____________________
_____________________

Many thanks.

We'll try to use this information to convince your clients and users that Alpha is the right choice for application development.

Sincerely,

Richard Rabins

computerworld
www.computerworld.com

for new tool searching, Google

No matter how busy I am, I read computerworld cover to cover.

On the web side, it would (will? V8?) be much better when Alpha has the same tools and ease of use for creating with MySQL that you currently have with DBFs. I know you can use MySQL now but try getting a field list populated doing it, etc.

It's the LAMP stack that has the largest appeal to many people. Getting a product that will address that desire (ease of design with MySQL and ease of server setup) that will let you really own the RAD competition. I am hoping that that day comes sooner than later.

/waves at the V8 programmers.
Please make me want to say WOW I *LOVE* V8 !

[Tedacria]

Publicising Alpha (five) Software

Have you considered the publication Computeractive? Their web address is www.computeractive.co.uk

[Brett]

Consultant web sites

One way to get the word out is through web sites such as guru.com that help customers find programmers and vice versa. I went to post a profile on Guru.com, but there is no Alpha Five selection in the dropdown list. It would add a lot to an Alpha Five programmers creditability if Alpha Five was a searchable dropdown list choices on these types of sites. Otherwise, customers will feel it's too obscure to choose as a programming platform.

Brett
IncWebs Inc.

[Steve Wood]

I may have mentioned this to you earlier, but one method is to have a volunteer take one or more of your slide presentations to a local user group meeting. Around here we have about a dozen that meet regularly. You could even convince users groups for FoxPro to give you 15 minutes. Meetup.com is a good source for finding such groups.

[Segulah]

Richard,

One other possible attack prong that I suggested to Brett Johnston: go after the high school/community college market by giving price incentives to induce them to switch from your two primary competitors in this segment: MS Access and FileMaker. Not only can they provide a significant market in themselves, but they introduce students to the product. I believe that when those students graduate, they will tend to go back to programs that they used in school or influence their companies to use those products.