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Thread: "Enter new record"...not blank

  1. #1
    Paul Simison
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    Default "Enter new record"...not blank

    Does anybody know how to prevent A5v5 from copying the current viewed record into the new record when a new record is created.

    The user guide clearly states that the new record is blank, but I find you have to go through it to delete all the copied data first...a real pain.

    Paul Simison..

  2. #2
    "Certified" Alphaholic
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    Tom Cone Jr
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    Default RE:

    This isn't necessary in the typical case.

    Do you see the same behavior using the default form for your table?

    Is there a set involved? Describe it's settings. Is the new record being started in the primary table? Is this where the extraneous "spill over" field values is occurring also, or are they appearing in related child table records?

    How are you beginning the new record?

    -- t

  3. #3
    "Certified" Alphaholic Stan Mathews's Avatar
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    Default RE:

    Do you have an field value defaults defined in the field rules? These will populate a new record if they are set for "Set value at start of data entry" on the data entry tab.

  4. #4
    Paul Simison
    Guest

    Default RE:Unwanted duplicate records

    Tom..

    No sets.
    No child tables.
    The default form does the same thing.
    This is a simple plain vanilla database.
    The new record is started in the primary (and only) table.
    I find the same behaviour using all three methods as described in the user guide page 61.

    If a record is being created, and when done I want to create another, I hit the new record icon (etc) it duplicates the current new record into the newnew record.

    In default form, I can avoid the problem by not having a field highlighted.

  5. #5
    Paul Simison
    Guest

    Default RE:

    Stan.. see reply to Tom Cone.

    "No sets.
    No child tables.
    The default form does the same thing.
    This is a simple plain vanilla database.
    The new record is started in the primary (and only) table.
    I find the same behaviour using all three methods as described in the user guide page 61.

    If a record is being created, and when done I want to create another, I hit the new record icon (etc) it duplicates the current new record into the newnew record.

    In default form, I can avoid the problem by not having a field highlighted."

  6. #6
    Volunteer Moderator
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    Alan Buchholz
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    Default RE:

    Paul

    You should post a copy of the database so we can try that.

    Please include enough instructions to make it easy.

    I would think that you are already on the latest patch for v5.....

    Might want to check that.

  7. #7
    Paul Simison
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    Default RE:unwanted data in new record

    I tried the version 6 patch. I note that in the "about" window it still says version 5, but the version/build has updated to 1506/1058.

    I will now try making a new database with one table, with three fields to play with. If it exhibits the same behaviour I will post it.

    Paul Simison..

  8. #8
    Volunteer Moderator
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    Alan Buchholz
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    Default RE:unwanted data in new record

    Paul

    I don't understand the reference to the version 6 patch. It has nothing to do with the version 5 that I assume that you are running - since you posted in this forum and talked about version 5 patch numbers. You are on the latest v5 patch that I know of.

    If you tried to patch v5 with a v6 patch, it should be ignored by v5. It considers each version to be separate programs on your system.

  9. #9
    Paul Simison
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    Default RE:unwanted data in new record

    You are quite right..Silly me...I didn't look closely enough at the page on the Tech Support area, I thought the patch upped it to version 6. The patch I used is the 9.9Mbyte file. I should have read the headers a bit more carefully.

    Anyway...it doesn't help.

    Paul S

  10. #10
    Paul Simison
    Guest

    Default RE:

    I tried making a little test database with two fields and one table. It works just like it should. I searched the field rules of the misbehaving one...nothing unexpected.

    Paul S

  11. #11
    Volunteer Moderator
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    Alan Buchholz
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    Default RE:

    Paul

    Have you tried compacting the database?

    Did you have field rules that were previously doing some type of use previous values?

    What happens in the default form? Use that instead of a custom form to test field rules without other interference.

  12. #12
    Paul Simison
    Guest

    Default RE:Unwanted data in new record

    1...The default form does the same thing.
    2...No wierd field rules...anyway if it used previous data, it would only copy those fields with that rule, and I have searched all fields tagged with field rules...they are few in number, and all clean.
    3...Compacting didn't help.

    I am tempted to create a new database and copy all the data into it to sidestep the problem, but I want to know what is wrong for future use.

    Paul S..

  13. #13
    Volunteer Moderator
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    Alan Buchholz
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    Default RE:Unwanted data in new record

    Paul

    On the 11th I asked you to put a copy of the database on a message so we can look at it.

    Is that a possibility?

    Otherwise I don't know what else to suggest. Some times you just gotta get it in your hands to see it.

  14. #14
    Paul Simison
    Guest

    Default RE:Unwanted data in new record

    The thing that was stopping me was that I am not sure which files to include. There are eleven, and obviously the .adb is not enough.

    Paul S.
    nnnn

  15. #15
    Volunteer Moderator
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    Default RE:Unwanted data in new record

    Paul

    Here is an image of what you should do to zip the database.

    Then attach the database to a message using the Attach File option on the create message form. Or send it to my email address which is shown by clicking my name.

    Let us know if that works or not.

  16. #16
    Paul Simison
    Guest

    Default RE:Unwanted data in new record

    Following is an "off board" conversation, posted here at the request of Al Buchholz, as info for anyone who is interested. Read from the bottom towards the top.
    ===================

    Al..

    Q...I want to use my own expression because I want the record number to be created once only...at record creation. Then it must not increment at future revisions. The auto increment will alter it every time.


    A...That's not true. It makes the value when the record is created and leaves it as that value even when a record is updated.


    Q...The strange thing is that the expression works fine, so long as you close the current record before trying to create a new one. The system did not warn me not to do it that way...I only got warnings when I stripped the IF expression away from the MAXIMUM statement.


    A...It told me that the expression shouldn't be used.

    ===================
    I will try the "events" route, also look at the suggestions on the site.

    Also...when I am satisfied with the thing, I will post it to the site.

    Paul S..

    ==================================


    At 07:43 AM 2/26/2005 -0600, you wrote:

    Paul

    Or it's using a function that's not designed to be used there.

    Why do you want to write your own expression when the autoincrement does what you want?

    I believe it when the system tells you not to use a function in that context, you probably better not use it there.

    There are some examples of alternatives to the autoincrement choice for those who need it. Some are posted on the message board, others are at http://www.learnalpha.com

    Most involve coding applied at the cansave event of the field rules. Those events are found on the events tab of the field rules along with choosing the record events within that tab.

    I don't think you're going to convince anyone that this situation is a bug. The system in fact told you not to do it that way. The only thing it didn't do is give you an alternative.

    To keep the message board effective, please post your results so others can gain from that experience.

    regards
    alb
    ==========================
    At 12:06 AM 2/26/2005, you wrote:

    Al..

    This gets wierd. I think the word for it is a bug.

    I did the things you suggested, and it stopped misbehaving!

    So...I put everything back the way it was, one step at a time (to find out what the problem was), and the problem re-occurred when I rebuilt the calculated field expression for RECNBR (was RECNO).

    The expression is IF(RECNBR"0,RECNBR,MAXIMUM(RECNBR)+1) This creates a record number by adding one to the highest existing RECNBR, but only if it is empty.

    The expression evaluates correctly, but also causes the problem. I tried it with a dummy IF(1=1,2,3) statement which works fine, and causes no problem, and it appears that it is the MAXIMUM argument that bombs it. If I put the MAXIMUM statement in by itself...ie: not inside an IF( ) statement, the field rules system will not allow it...says "cannot use in this context".

    Paul S..
    ===========================

    0600, you wrote:

    Paul

    I'm not getting it to do what you said.

    Are you on the latest patch? Check help - about Alpha and let me know the two numbers that are there.

    There is also a help - check for new version.

    I do get a problem in the field rules with the recno field.

    I'm thinking that you're fighting the system too much.

    Use an autoincrement field and don't name it recno. Call it record_id or something else.

    Make create_date an user entered field, with a default value of date() and a skip of .t.

    Make the rev_date a calculated field - date() with a skip of .t.

    I think that'll make your problems go away.

    Let me know if that helps.
    alb
    ===========================

    At 05:59 PM 2/24/2005, you wrote:

    Sorreeee...forgot the attach file!!!
    ===========================
    Al..

    Thanx for your interest. I have attached the zipfile of the experimental database I was having trouble with. It is a collection of addresses.
    In case you are wondering, they are all real addresses from my Xmas card list...there really is a Puddleduck Cottage in Stubb Rd. in Hickling.

    If you select the default form, do nothing else except click on "new record" button/icon, and you will get a new record, the new record will contain the data from the record with the highlighted field.

    I have cleared all but one field rule, and I don't think that has anything to do with anything.

    Regards
    Paul Simison..
    nnnn

  17. #17
    "Certified" Alphaholic Stan Mathews's Avatar
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    Default RE:Unwanted data in new record

    Re: Maximum function -- from the documentation....

    Note: This function is a report writer function, not intended for table level field rules or other expressions. While the function may perform in some areas outside of the report writer, its use there is not supported.

  18. #18
    Paul Simison
    Guest

    Default RE:Unwanted data in new record

    This is the problenm with A5. While it offers many flexibilities, little gems like the one mentioned by Stan Mathews are quietly not mentioned in the literature. The "User guide" describes this function in detail, but fails to mention it's limitations. Presumably the same applies to "minimum"...and which others???? What are these functions good for??

    Paul Simison..

  19. #19
    Volunteer Moderator
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    Alan Buchholz
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    Default RE:Unwanted data in new record

    Paul

    Here is a page for the user guide. See attached image.

    I don't know how it could be more obvious. Note the yellow warning sign.

    Do you have the latest user guide? The date on the first page should be 2 Feb 2005. Otherwise download from the Learning Center - Click to see latest documentation

  20. #20
    Ed
    Guest

    Default RE:Unwanted data in new record

    I'm not sure if this thread wandered or not, but I think I had the same problem Paul was describing. In a table, hitting the Ctrl-E or using the Records drop down menu, a new blank record was not being created. Overwriting the on screen data results in the record being displayed to be changed and a new record is not created.

    In the field rules, I made a field auto-incrementing and A5 displayed Xbasic code in the Events tab, I assume created for the auto-increment. Although I clicked on "Delete All Rules" that Xbasic never went away. By opening the code editor and manually deleting the code then saving the changes, the problem was resolved. I now get a blank record when pressing Ctrl-E.

    I am an experienced user of A5, but had never encountered this issue. Apparently, using the "Delete All Rules" menu selection doesn't quite delete ALL rules.

  21. #21
    Paul Simison
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    Default RE:Unwanted data in new record

    No...no date on the first page...or any other page, except the publication dates on the second page. Also, the writeup looks quite different in layout. Will get the latest version as suggested.

    I wonder if Alpha would like my help in setting up a proper revision/status control system like the system we created at Sperry for aircraft manuals.

    Paul Simison..
    nnnn

  22. #22
    Paul Simison
    Guest

    Default RE:Unwanted data in new record

    I will say this...this phorum REALLY works. Most such forums are a waste of electricity...postings simply disappear into a black hole.

    Not this one!!!

    Paul S..
    nnnn

  23. #23
    Ed
    Guest

    Default RE:Unwanted data in new record

    I've found over the years, the Alpha user community is pretty solid. I occasionally get a response to a post I may have made months ago when someone has searched the messages and asks a question about an issue.

    Fact is, this ain't Micro$oft, and that's good. Many of the posters here dedicated users, and you can often see a response to someone asking a question within a few minutes, even during business hours. Try calling M$ and getting that quick an answer.

    In reference to your other message about a tracking system: send Selwyn an email. He might be interested. I'd be happy if the board here had a better search engine, but as others have said, the Alpha staff is focused on improving the product, not running a BB.

  24. #24
    Paul Simison
    Guest

    Default Tracking system

    Who is Selwyn??

    Parable...

    Boeing designed the world's super airliner. It took off in a few yards, was near silent, ran on water as fuel, and required a crew of one. It could fly from continent to continent in hours less time than any competitor. The only slight problem was that it crashed every time it tried to land.

    The moral of the story is...you have to do it all, or you have done nothing.

    Unparable

    Paul Simison..
    nnnn

  25. #25
    Volunteer Moderator
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    Default RE: Tracking system

    Paul

    The search of the board for the name of Selwyn will answer your question.

    (He's the head of the tech side of Alpha)

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