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A5 Runtime application setup file size - Yikes!

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    A5 Runtime application setup file size - Yikes!

    I have my first major A5 application almost ready to package so I thought I would do a test to see how well it would go. I have created the Runtime setup file OK and am somewhat perturbed to discover it is more than 15 MBytes in size, and that's compressed. And if I expand it, it will gobble up around 50 MBytes. I now have a BIG problem.
    My application is destined to become shareware distributed over the Internet. But I want to keep the download size well down (under 1 MByte was my original target). Can anyone suggest how I might resolve this problem?
    I have attached a list of some of the larger files contained in the setup packaging (see attached jpeg file). Many thanks in anticipation to those who can help.

    #2
    RE: A5 Runtime application setup file size - Yikes

    Hi Brett,

    Sorry I can't help!

    This said, I have two major commercial applications on stock on this moment that I sell to private persons.
    Not over the internet, but on CD.
    The compressed size of the smallest one is 45.525 Kb.
    So it can get larger...

    My best guess is, that it is not a question of compression. There is not much downsize to win there.
    I think it is just the structure of A5 that causes this kind of file-sizes.

    One thing that can add to the size is if you have used embedded images in forms (which I don't think you have anyway) as in opposed to one with path structure.

    I am as eager as you to reduce file sizes, because it seems from my experience the installers I have tried even need more space to install the project then the project itself. A few times errors occurred that disappeared after clearing more space (on my testing machine) although there already was more space then the 120MB required for the system. It is taking rather much space, but isn't this the issue with all modern packages?

    Greetings,

    Marcel

    Comment


      #3
      RE: A5 Runtime application setup file size - Yikes

      My application has only 3 tables and two forms. No reports, no browses, and little else. [OK, so there's a lot of code to compensate]. So to distribute my application with 50 MBytes of mandatory excess baggage appears to be an overkill.
      If no one can help here, I will have to consider other alternatives involving use of non-A5 software development tools. I used A5 to develop it because this saved a lot of development effort. I hope that this is not the quid pro quo.

      Comment


        #4
        RE: A5 Runtime application setup file size - Yikes

        Brett,

        That seems a wee bit high. That's about on a par with our app, which is literally hundreds of forms, tables, functions, etc., and AlphaSports is only about 3MB--

        Oh, I see. Yeah, it looks like the runtime itself is 50MB. Yow. That's pretty damn hefty for shareware. There may be clever ways to reduce the size of the runtime to eliminate stuff you don't need. I wouldn't imagine knowing what's safe to get rid of to be very easy, though--

        Well, now, wait."s" I have some patches and an A5 user help file in my runtime directory. That drops it down to 37 megs. Unfortunately, The A5 app and system.aex are 16MB by themselves--so you're not going to get much smaller than that no matter what you do.

        In short, the answer to your question is: Yes, that's the cost of Alpha's ease-of-use. Access 2K's runtime, I'm told is in the 80-120MB range. I think Visual dBASE is only 4MB, though you can get a "packer" that will reduce it to around floppy disk size (1.5MB).

        If you want smaller, you're probably going to have to go to a 3GL. It's possible to get much smaller EXEs out of C, Delphi--em, not VB--though it's important to note that, in many cases, you'll have to jump through some hoops to get under 1MB AND still have Alpha-like grids and forms.

        Comment


          #5
          RE: A5 Runtime application setup file size - Yikes

          Thanks, Blake. Useful comments. As Maxwell Smart used to say, "I asked you not to tell me that!". I think I may well have to resort to one of your suggestions, Delphi seems a good bet. But I was sort of hoping that a shareware application in A5 would be a first and a boost for A5 usage in general.

          Comment


            #6
            RE: A5 Runtime application setup file size - Yikes

            Brett,

            There are a number of other things to think about.
            When you look at the runtime files more closely, you will see that there are files you can do without.
            There is a rather large pdf-format file you can delete, and there is also a whole directory of styles and images you maybe did not even use, at least you can delete the ones you did not use.
            You also have to look at the size of the images you are distributing together with your app, included in forms or not. Look at the resolution. For screen use the resolution need not to be high, you can look at the color depth as well.
            Last advice is to skip the entire helpsection if it is in your app. This can be done if the app is designed clear enough. You can always publish an *.pdf helpfile on your site for download later.

            Hope this also helps.

            Regards,

            Marcel Onck

            Comment


              #7
              RE: A5 Runtime application setup file size - Yikes

              I think the suggestion of paring unneeded files from the Runtime is a pretty good suggestion. Maybe that question in particular would be a good one to ask of Alpha.
              Thank you,
              Mike Konoff

              Comment


                #8
                RE: A5 Runtime application setup file size - Yikes

                Hello,

                I am not sure if someone has already suggested this to you, but i just couldnt resist pointing out this to you: You may use PKZIP and zip your database into formats of "1.44 mb" each. And then put all 10 or so of these zips on the internet for users to download.

                With pkzip, you can even make the file sizes less then 1.44mb if you want but i thought that would be a good place to start.

                Cheers

                Comment


                  #9
                  RE: A5 Runtime application setup file size - Yikes

                  Ryan,

                  While your advice to make small download "packages" is generally good, in shareware you have to:

                  1. Be easy to download
                  2. Easy to install
                  3. Instantly indispensible

                  People would really have to be driven to download 10-40 different pieces, maybe moreso than 50-60MB in one big chunk.

                  ===Blake===

                  Comment


                    #10
                    RE: A5 Runtime application setup file size - Yikes

                    Blake:

                    I'm curious. If the compressed runtime package is approx 12.5 megs as distributed by Alpha, what is ballooning things at your end to 40 megs? Most Alpha app files compress by about 95%.

                    I have created multiple fixes and upgrades here that are all under 20 megs in final form, including the Runtime files. Now this may still be too big in your situation but it's certainly less than you have now.

                    FWIW I use Install Creator, not the the built-in runtime creator.

                    F.
                    Finian

                    Comment


                      #11
                      RE: A5 Runtime application setup file size - Yikes

                      Sorry Blake, obviously the question should be directed to Brett.

                      F.
                      Finian

                      Comment


                        #12
                        RE: A5 Runtime application setup file size - Yikes

                        A5 is great but for shareware or "other" types of software (even small databases) I would suggest using REALbasic (they have a built in 'non-enterprise' database). REALbasic compiles everything into a single file that is generally quite small. My last app was 2.03 meg. Since it is compiled the apps are quite fast! In addition you can write for M$Win, Mac, or Linux.

                        They have a trial download www.realbasic.com

                        Something to consider...

                        ~joe

                        Comment


                          #13
                          RE: A5 Runtime application setup file size - Yikes

                          Kind of funny, that is the same reason .net or java sucks for the shareware devs. That same discussion was held awhile back on joel on software.

                          Not to be a smart a$$, but I think I would have checked into runtime distribution size before writing the app. That said, the people that mentioned a compiled app that doesn't require a runtime is probably the way to go. You could go VB, but that has lost MS's blessing. The other option is Real Basic or Delphi. Delphi is very nice I'm told

                          I hope you find a workable solution.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            RE: A5 Runtime application setup file size - Yikes

                            I never really looked but it seems that some of the runtime files may not be necessary. The question is which ones? Does anyone have a list of files that they can take out safely. It looks like the debugger is included... do I really need to include that?!? Well I guess it's only 76k... I see a zip file of about 11 meg... Looks like the runtime packed up in the runtime (wrapped in a riddle etc etc). The runtime documentation seems like an obvious one to discard.

                            I use a CD to distribute but wouldn't mind reducing the size just for the heck of it...

                            ~joe

                            Comment


                              #15
                              RE: A5 Runtime application setup file size - Yikes

                              Here it is, Finian: 235 files at 50 MBytes. I am not game to try and work out which files my application requires and which it doesn't - too big a job.

                              Comment

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