Users are stubborn

[Wanda Tucker]

RE: Users are stubborn

Hmmm, will Dell come clean my house because suddenly I don't know how? I bought a Dell system (for home) just a few months ago.

Does your person have a contract with Dell to "clean his computer"?

I'm not sure what brand pc my user (the missing files user) has...if it's a Dell, then perhaps they can deal with the problem and I'll send her a disc to restore as often as she wants...
Wanda

[DaveM]

RE: Users are stubborn

COOL

[Steve Lippis]

RE: Users are stubborn

Hello,

First a question then my 2 cents.

Just out of curiousity, has anyone ever asked the users why they are not using the program? I think it is much easier to find out what people want and address their needs rather than trying to force something on them.

Maybe it would be worth talking to some of the users and find out what is working and what is not working for them. Think of this as your product that you are trying to market to them, you need to know your customers.

Steve

[forskare]

RE: Users are stubborn

Hello Wanda, et al,

This has been an interesting thread, to say the least. Good to have a different Genre.

I'll spare the war stories but suffice it to say, most managers I've delt with and especially upper management, do not put their personal fellings about those they supervise on a shelf and just supervise them. The same can be said about those being supervised.

It's difficult for some people to separate personal issues from the job. I don't have to like some to work with them and compliment them on the good job they do. In time, I've found that even the most difficult person came around (took 10+ years).

Management on the other hand.........For some reason, they see their career as the main venue instead of their job. Guess thay never realized that if they focused on the job, the caree would follow. More human nature, I guess.

I said that to say this, something I wish I could have learned YEARS ago but it's been the School of Hard Knocks that's taught me:

We're dealing with personalities rather than a robot that does the job as programed. Our personalities and pride that get in the way and mess things up for a lot of folk.

We don't want to look bad cause it might affect a promotion, etc. or I might loose my job (and that's possible). I've also seen that some in upper management have their "own" agenda, and it's not for the benefit of the taxpayers or employees, unless of course, it'll make management look good.

I see a lot of this in the responses to Wanda's request. Sometimes a manager doesn't clearly state the task to be done and it's left to the employee to figure it out. Often neither realize that they are not on the same street, as was Wanda's case. Whose fault is that? Well, a little of bot, the employee assumed and the manager didn't properly manage.

Enough's been said about the FRC except to add, they're no different in Minnesota than California, my former place of abode (Yes, I MISS the ocean and the mountains).

I've learned some valuable advice from some good advisors. No doubt others have as well.

kenn
(Govt employee 32 years)
(Has it really been that long already?)

[Wanda Tucker]

RE: Users are stubborn

Steve, you silly goose. Read my original post.
Wanda

[Wanda Tucker]

RE: Users are stubborn

Hi Ken,

"Whose fault is that? Well, a little of bot, the employee assumed and the manager didn't properly manage."

Actually, I try very hard not to assume, and I don't believe I did - but please correct me if you still maintain that opinion, as I do have a tendency to take things very literally, which can get me in trouble from time to time.

When my supe asked me to ask the FRC's to send the reports to her, instead of the state form, how else could they send the database generated reports without putting in any data? Where did I go wrong in assuming? Doesn't one assume the data must be in the database in order to get anything out of its reports?

IS IT FRIDAY YET? Oh, phew - it is :))))))))))))))))))))

W

[T Sayers]

RE: Users are stubborn

Hi Wanda,

I started at my last company just doing a few small database edits. I ended up running everything technical in the entire firm.

Here's my tips:
How can you help them?
When you start, you have no credibility and, as you have found, it will be all but impossible to force a solution because people will not trust you or they will see you as a threat. Instead, find a user/group or users who is prepared to talk to you about what they have that takes their time and how do they think it could be improved. Avoid technical talk here.


Start with small wins.
Start with *small* apps that just do very specific tasks and concentrate on simplicity and ease of use. Actively seek user feedback as you develop and make sure your apps are bullet-proof before you release them. At this stage, resist the temptation to make anything other than the smallest changes to the way people work. I found that making forms look exactly like the paper forms they currently use is a good start. It gets them used to using computers, appears to be a small change (and thus not so much of a threat) and it at least allows you to capture data to *a* database rather than on paper. Do that and you're 3/4 of the way there as you can manipulate the data and reports behind the scenes. If you can get this far, you are well on the way.


Leverage the goodwill of your champions
If they like your apps, and they will, because as far as they are concerned, they helped build them, then they will talk about them to other folks who will then start coming to you. While this happens, keep interacting with your champions. Ask them: "How can I help them more? What if you had a similar app that did X?" Think about everything you do from the standpoint of making users' lives easier, and make use of the system entirely voluntary and the resistance will melt away.

When you introduce new ideas to your champions, use small steps with obvious advantages, have the ideas largely developed before you show them off and use real data so users recognise it. Obvious advantages creates buy-in, having the ideas largely developed minimises time to implementation (during which resistance can build), allows you show them something akin to how it will work (and helps you steer the app towards where you know it needs to be headed). Using real data makes it much easier for them to see the advantages and also helps you to see the problems with their current systems as you will gain familiarity with the live data too.

Do not worry about the having-your-'suggestions'-largely-pre-built being an imposition for you as the basic engine/functions & scripts will be largely the same no matter what interface you give them. Also, having pre-built 'examples' will make it FAR easier to get the app headed in the direction you know it has to go, there will be far less time to implementation during which they can change their minds, and whatever time you lose building stuff that's not used will be won back as you'll have less rounds of development and umm-ing and ahh-ing on what should and should not be.


Build onwards and upwards
The more this interaction and iteration process goes on, the more credibility you will build and the easier it will be to make further changes. I came to see a distinct pattern in one of the managers in my company: first he would ignore what I was doing, then he would poo-poo it, then he would be curious about what it was that his users were so enthusiastic about and then he absolutely couldn't live without it and had to have it yesterday. Even the toughest nuts come usually round eventually.


So to recap...
Let your users drive the process
Listen listen listen
Build small and bullet-proof apps with clear gains and minimal need for change/learning (ie low threat/risk)
As you build credibility, tie these smaller apps together for the big gains.


Good luck,
Trevor

[forskare]

RE: Users are stubborn

Hi Wanda,

That's how I took your comments as stated above. Guess I did not read them very clearly. Another problem that gets in our way at times; understanding clearly what others say.

At any rate, I apologize for being wrong and you taught me to read more carefully.

Thanks for the lesson.

kenn

[forskare]

RE: Users are stubborn

Trevor,

Very good advice!!

kenn

[Wanda Tucker]

RE: Users are stubborn

Hi Trevor,
Excellent advice and precisely what i'd do if I had the luxory. However, I am not yet set up in my own business, and I was not hired to build databases in the job I currently have. I was hired specifically to find/gather and annalyze data for our Children's System of Care.

The job has evolved. Once my employer saw the great things I could do with Alpha for my own use in finding and analyzing the data, and for the first time linking several agencies data together, I was asked to build a database for the FRC's, based on grant-driven criteria. I did not get to initially meet with the FRC's, as my supe instructed me to build the database from HER point of view, based on the criteria that she would annually send to the state.

This was all said further up in this post. This post has gotten so long that I am having to repeat myself...so I'm now hoping it will die off.

I do sincerely appreciate your well thought out advice and will proceed with it as I already intend, when I have the luxory to do so :)
Thank you,
Wanda

[Wanda Tucker]

RE: Users are stubborn

PS - Oddly enough, it's this same supe who is forcing me to learn Access to "further my career". Well, it's furthering me straight out the door as soon as my business takes off.

No, she didn't make this decision based on my application...she wants me to learn Access (which I'm attempting to do) simply because it's a Micro$oft product and "everyone uses it". Didn't everyone drive a horse and buggy at one time, too? Didn't everyone use an outhouse before toilets were invented?

I'm off and running to do my work, now.

Thank you ALL SO VERY MUCH!!!!!
Sincerely,
Wanda

[Wanda Tucker]

RE: Users are stubborn

Gotta love 'ya, Ken :)

[Marcel Kollenaar]

RE: Users are stubborn

Hi Wanda,

I think you answered a part of your problem:

"It's like giving a 5 year old a million bucks...they have no clue what to do with it until you show them it's power ;)"

Give them a course how to work with the database....

I always give my users a one hour instruction (sometimes 1,5 hour) about the stuff I made. I never introduce something without a little meeting with the users.

Marcel