Users are stubborn

[Wanda Tucker]

Hey all,
The Family Resource Database that I installed in 5 offices is only being used by one of them because the others simply don't have time to enter the data.

Instead, they are continuing to tally various data by hand from sign-in sheets, and not collecting data that is pertinent to the grant we (SOcial Services) received and passed on to them.

This has come to my attention because several of the FRC's sent in several months worth of "data" on the form that they were supposed to fill out based on the statistics built into the application reports.

I got the stack of forms and very quickly realized they had not gotten the information from the application reports (for instance a "family" count of 1, with 36 individuals - no kidding!), and was given the task by my supervisor to find out why their data was "bad".

Now I'm getting uncomfortably stuck in the middle. They all agree that if they had the time to enter all the back data, they would use the application to enter current data. No one has the funds to pay for the data entry of back-data, however. (Yes, I've asked if I could do it for them. The answer is no-way.)

All this, to a degree, is putting me in a rough place, so I'm asking for any advise anyone can come up with.

Have any of you ever had to "make" someone enter data when they simply didn't want to?

Is it better to introduce a reluctant customer to data entry in smaller chunks - such as creating one simple "Customer" table, first? If so, what kind of obstacles are created by installng one "chunk" at a time?

My supervisor will be back tomorrow and I want to be as armed as possible with explanations AND possible solutions.

Thank you!
Wanda

[davej]

RE: Users are stubborn

Wanda,

There is absolutely no way you can make someone enter data (or do any task, for that matter) that they don't want to do. If they reluctantly enter the data, it will be sloppy and inaccurate - at best.

Could you get the one location that is doing the data entry talk to their counterparts and 'talk up' the advantages and benefits of doing the back data entry? People generally have a tendency to accept change, in whatever form, if they can perceive a benefit to themselves.

If you cannot get the remaining four offices to do the (old) data entry to get caught up, the only thing I would suggest is to document the discussions, send copies to the appropriate supervisors and keep your head down.

Dave

[Peter.Greulich]

RE: Users are stubborn

Lets see...

You can take a horse to water, but you can't make her drink.

My supervisor will be back tomorrow and I want to be as armed as possible with explanations AND possible solutions.

"All power comes from the barrel of a gun" - Mao Tze-Dung

You can't teach an old dog new tricks.

Put in your own phrase here:______________________________

Hhmmm...That's a tough one, Wanda.

Peter

[Wanda Tucker]

RE: Users are stubborn

Hi Dave,
Thank you - good idea to get the one who is doing the data entry to talk with the others...I'll see if my supe can okay this idea and approach the one...but there is yet another problem I've just discovered.

I don't believe this problem is caused by the application - and unfortunately it is at the site of the only "one" who is doing the data entry. She hasn't done any in a couple weeks, and now that she sits back down to do it, the app seems corrupt, again! She said the reports aren't printing, rather she's getting an error message of "can't find form"...oddly, it never was set up to find a form. The other really odd thing is that the app doesn't open properly when she clicks on the desktop icon. It opens Alpha's menu bar, only. She has to select File/then the only database listed to get to the startup form.

She has sent a printscreen fax of the files, as seen in Windows Explorer, as I suspect the extensions have been renamed again. This happened before and I suspected students getting into the database, or file corruption based on no surge protector. The IT guy password protected the computer, and installed a beefier surge protector, at my suggestion/encouragement. Now, though, the app is not working, again! The fax is hard to read, but I'm attempting to compare her files with mine, at the moment.

Wanda

[Wanda Tucker]

RE: Users are stubborn

Peter,
Read my reply to Dave's reply. The plot definitely "sickens"...I like Mao Tze-Dung's rendition best...works for me all the time on the old homestead!
Wanda

[Tom Cone Jr]

RE: Users are stubborn

Wanda,

In similar situations I've urged management to lay down a hard and fast rule. All transactions before a certain date get handled the old way. All transactions on and after that date must be handled the new way.

-- tom

[Robert Picard]

RE: Users are stubborn

Hi Wanda

I have had this problem on a few occasions. There is no easy answer.

My approach was to go up the ladder until I found someone who had a vested interest in this succeeding and the authority to enforce compliance.

Points I would bring up in my discussions.

- Accoutability...The manager knows sooner what is happening in all departments (he isn't interested in the time it takes to bring the database up to date since its not his problem or job).

- Time saved in generating reports and the ability to generate other reports that previously were not thought possbible because of the time required to collate masses of paper data.

- On you part have you done as much as possible to reduce typing for data entry.ie. lookups, default values...Of course this only goes so far when there is a backlog of data, going back years and people used to doing things the old familiar way.

- As to finding a body to do the data entry work check for govenment programs that will subsidize an employees wage. There can be Unemployment programs where they are trying to reintergrate someone back into the work force and they will pay part or all of the employees wages.

Good luck

Robert

[Wanda Tucker]

RE: Users are stubborn

Yes, a good idea. I mentioned that to her a week or so ago when I discovered 2 out of the 5 weren't using the database. She isn't willing to allow them to do that. Maybe now she will be, though.

Thanks, Tom :)
Wanda

[Wanda Tucker]

RE: Users are stubborn

Hi Robert,
Excellent advise. Thank you for your time jotting down these ideas.

Unfortunately, a lot of non-profits around here in this rural, poor county have been babied far too long. The management of these offices are the one's claiming they can't manage the time to get the data entered. In one office the staff is only 1, in the others the staff is 2 or more.

My supervisor is attempting to make them accountable by yanking their grant-funded contract if they don't provide accurate data. (We get a grant that we then divvy out to the FRC's in exchange for the data that we compile and send back to the state, who is the grantor.)

I've explained about how the application will save them time in the long run. And Yes, I've designed tons of lookups, default values, etc - no duplication of data entry into the application. Every bit of it is menu driven. I've even put as many as a dozen operations in one button.

GREAT IDEA about finding a body to do the data entry work via government programs. I will try to get authorization to explore that one :)

Now - on to the next problem...the one office who's doing the data entry now finds file extensions simply gone...I'll start a new thread for that.

Thank you, Robert.
Wanda

[whanigsberg]

RE: Users are stubborn

Wanda,

It's got to be a rule. You're in an organization and organizations have procedures. Either data is supposed to be submitted one way or another way. Which is the required way?

It is absolutely not your affair to specify. If it were you would be in management and you are not. In this respect your situation and my own are exactly equivalent. One of my applications is used to submit class scheduling data to the registrar. Departments would be happy to submit some chicken scratchings to the registrar where technicians used to take six weeks to decipher and correct the crud. This would hold up the whole college.

The registrar simply instructed the scheduling techs to return any paper submissions to the department of origination. Simple.

The problem is managerial rather than technical.

In my case we only had to deal with a few of rogues because I had worked at developing buyin from most of the departmental users by explaining how the application reduced their workload.

But the moral of the tale is that unless you have the authority to order people to do things you had best not try.

Good luck,
Bill

[Wanda Tucker]

RE: Users are stubborn

Hi Bill,
Words of wisdom spoken from another expert, it sounds like. Thank you for your thoughts and time spent on replying. The problem is definitely with the FRC's Management. Perhaps this is exactly why my supervisor isn't budging on allowing me to assist with data entry, or check into an intern from a couple other agencies around here...she may go for an intern who is fully paid by a different grant or department, though.

The benefit comes full-circle, however, because the fewer FRC's there are in the county, the more people end up on our "welfare" roles...or the more homeless our county has to deal with and protect as much as possible...or the more children end up in CPS because the parents are neglectful simply due to ignorance - an ignorance that melts away by going to the FRC's parenting classes...

You've helped me not feel so anxiety-ridden over this, and I appreciate it very much...now on to the file extensions disappearing...


Wanda

[Dennis Mathias]

RE: Users are stubborn

Oh, cripes. Let me say something about this one. I (me) enter the data FOR the engineers who install equipment. All they have to do is jot it on the form.

Nope, they DON'T HAVE TIME!

I fight a constant documentation battle and the frustration level is constantly elevated.

All you can do is have documentation on the lack of DOCUNENTATION to give yourself DENIABILITY when it all blows up.

[martinwcole]

RE: Users are stubborn

one idea, one design point

idea:
you could explore using a scanner or hand-scanner to get the data and convert to text, and then write a script to import it. it would be a major task, and likely quite time consuming, but I bet it is possible.

point:
when I am designing tables/forms for collecting data, I am always asking myself, and my contact, is this field really necessary. The less data an operator has to input, and needless to say the easier/faster/more bulletproof it is, the greater the likelyhood is they will use it at all, and especially correctly.

I have seen programs that actually took the operators more time to use than a paper system; I have seen programs that screened the data so poorly that the data became meaningless; and I have seen programs that were very user-unfriendly, that required so many choices and so much jumping from the keyboard to the mouse that they were very akward and time consuming to use.

At least half the time in my design of a program is spent in error/bullet proofing it and making it fast and easy for the operator.

[RJGowan]

RE: Users are stubborn

Your situation reminded me of one I had to deal with years ago. My solution may not be relevant to your situation, but for what it's worth ...

Our regional offices maintained a set of records, that they used locally on an almost daily basis. But they also used them to produce for us, just once a year, some summary stats. It always required prodding and meant lots of complaints - didn't have time, etc. This had gone on forever.

I had a need for some more detail, on one aspect of their records, than was provided in the summaries, and figured I had a snowball's chance in hell of getting them to dig it out for me.

So, I hired a student with a bit of computer experience, spent some time explaining the data I needed and what I'd do with it, and helped him get started on a simple database application to collect the data I needed. I also had him explore some other things we might collect that might be useful to the regional folks - the idea here was to approach them with a carrot - not a stick.

Then I sent him off to each of the offices for up to a couple of weeks, where he was to enter the historical data, and with any luck, show the regions what might be gained by them using our simple application to keep future data right up to date (and to provide me with reports, "on request").

We both suspected the data entry would take only a few days and the training/coaxing/etc a couple more, but he was to spend the two weeks if he thought it worthwhile, to try to accommodate anything else the regions might want to improve the data collection.

The data collection went well in all three offices and he came back with lots of great data - right up to date. One of the offices continued to use the application and send reports, monthly, I believe. Another preferred to use a spreadsheet, which he helped them setup, and they promptly sent updates whenever asked.

The third one, asked me if the student could stay another week, at their expense, for they had some other things they wanted our little application to do. Glad to help them out. They hired the student for the next summer, and he developed a full blown application for most of their local record keeping.

It worked so well that corporate IT folks got wind of it and decided it should be redone in Oracle. After about a year and a half, maybe two, and who knows how many consultants, and no doubt obscene costs, they rolled out an application that did almost identical things as my student's - more secure for sure, but no more useful to users. In the meantime, the student's app. kept chugging along - a few report problems - but we'd revolutionized their data handling.

My biggest cost was the travel expenses, but what a rewarding outcome!!

[Wanda Tucker]

RE: Users are stubborn

Dennis,
The other part of my job is collecting data from several different agencies in this county, and several group homes, foster agencies, and schools in this and other counties (sometimes other states).

I've set up a tickler file for sending reminders to those who don't automatically send the required data to me, according to how many "friendly" reminders I have to send to each person/place in order to get them to send me the data. With each successive reminder, they get a copy of the previous reminder, which is a copy of the previous reminder. In other words, send them a reminder but keep a copy for yourself - always date them. A few days or a week later write '2ND REMINDER' and the date on it, make a copy for yourself...so on and so forth. By the time they get the 4th or 5th reminder and can see a list of dates of you asking before, they get too embarrassed NOT to send the data. it actually works like a charm for me :)

Of course, I also remind them that they are required by the state to send me the data (which is true, in a round about way...I'm required to send it to the state - so remove me and the requirement falls onto them.

Hope this helps, some. Ultimately, management is responsible for them giving you the data, as is suggested earlier in this post.

Good luck!
Wanda