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How fast is your server.

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    How fast is your server.

    I have been running A4v6 on our server and it is quite fast. The server is 500 mhz, 500 meg ram, ultrawide scsi HDD's, all mirrored. It is several years old.(obviously) OS is Win nt 4 sp6i. Lan is 10/100 full duplex, all switched (no hubs)
    With A5v5 it is really pokey unless I really streamline the data forms. Basically I have found that I need to use forms on a single table to get good performance and even browses slow it down on a large table.

    It appears I need to build a new server.

    I am thinking now that I have a pretty good disk subsystem and maybe all I need is a new motherboard, cpu and memory.

    The question is how much do I need. What are others using and getting good or better performance with a5v5?

    Also does anyone have any comments regarding the speed of Linux with Samba vs Win NT?

    How about gig ethernet?

    Thanks in advance,
    Russ

    #2
    RE: How fast is your server.

    Russ,

    Have you considered shadowing? That will dramatically increase your network performance w/o new hardware.

    Peter
    Peter
    AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

    [email protected]
    https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


    Comment


      #3
      RE: How fast is your server.

      Hi Pete,
      Yes, I have it shadowed, and am running the runtime. I just want it faster. A lag on forms opening isn't acceptable for my users so I need to make it fast. The server I have now is kind of puny so I figured I'd see what some others are using.

      Thanks
      Russ

      Comment


        #4
        RE: How fast is your server.

        Russ,

        But the opening of forms is mostly related to the lcoal shadow files, not the data fetching over the net - unless you have forms based upon complex sets. It may be that faster local CPUs and more RAM may better serve you?

        Peter
        Peter
        AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

        [email protected]
        https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


        Comment


          #5
          RE: How fast is your server.

          ""It appears I need to build a new server.

          Investigate that conclusion =thoroughly= before embarking on a task that might not help.

          ""I am thinking now that I have a pretty good disk subsystem and maybe all I need is a new motherboard, cpu and memory.""

          CPU might help. Here's my personal experience: I'm developing a (large-ish) business application, and things take time. Starting it, for example, takes anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 minutes. The files reside on a network drive and are not shadowed.

          The network machine is "Lewis", a 1Ghz, 256MB RAM machine running Win2K.

          Sometimes I open the database on "Corman", a 1.4, 512MB RAM machine running Win98. As I said, starting takes about :30 to 2:00.

          Other times, I open the database on "Jarmusch", a 2.4 1024MB RAM machine running Win2K. Starting takes about :30 to 2:00.

          Sometimes I remove Lewis from the equation, and keep the files locally on Jarmusch. Starting takes about :30 to 2:00. (The high end may be slightly less on this machine, but on the other hand, sometimes it takes forever; i.e., I just shut A5 down and retry.)

          (Sometimes I watch my boss load it on his machine which is not on a network and is somewhere in the 1-2Ghz range. It takes about :30 to 2:00.)

          I honestly see very, very little difference between the machines. Jarmusch is noticably crisper for some things (it compacts the database faster). Compacting the database probably has a generally more positive effect than anything.

          ""Also does anyone have any comments regarding the speed of Linux with Samba vs Win NT?""

          Can't comment on using it with A5, but I recently installed Samba (took about 30 seconds :-)) and didn't notice any performance hit when networking with Windows machines. I may have data shortly, though.

          Comment


            #6
            RE: How fast is your server.

            Interesting. The speed issues don't crop up in most of the app, but I am now trying to optimize the order entry system, which is the most complex part. The tables tend to be large and there are a lot of dependencies. I left this for last and don't see the speed issues on smaller/simpler tables and sets.
            I have just removed some filtered combo box field types and do these with xdialog on a button which makes a noticeable difference but it still isn't where I need it.

            I agree and was assuming that the speed of the server shouldn't matter but it seems like it might or at least might be part of the puzzle. The workstation that I am testing on is an Athlon 1600 w 500 meg ram, high to mid range for us. We also have some down to 800 mhz and I really can't replace all the hardware at this time.
            I will test today on the fastest machine in the office and see what happens.
            I am also putting NT on a spare machine that is faster to see if it makes any difference.

            Thanks for the input
            Russ

            Comment


              #7
              RE: How fast is your server.

              Before buying a new server I'd investigate a little
              Try completely disabling virus software and checking out the speed.
              Try closing all programs on a client machine in case of a conflict.
              In your browses are there calcualted fields - that's really the only thing that should slow down a browse.
              What else is running on the server?
              What other activity is taking place on other client machines while observing the slow behavior?

              Comment


                #8
                RE: How fast is your server.

                I am going to look at this more today since there is something odd here. I assumed that the problem was due to the size of the tables and sets but maybe not.
                I post my results.

                Russ

                Comment


                  #9
                  RE: How fast is your server.

                  I learned a trick about accessing big relational (normalized) databases on our Novell based system.

                  Ghosting does help--or shadowing is what we're calling it.

                  However, when you hop from the main database to the related database it takes say 15 seconds before you can start entering data. Say you have a PURCHASE ORDER and on that order you have the relational database ITEMS. When you go from PURCHASE ORDER to ITEMS it really takes some time before you can start plugging the ITEMS in.

                  ***HOWEVER*** and this is the exciting part--if you enter the PURCHASE ORDER then Query for that number--then start entering into ITEMS it speeds up 1000%! I am quantifying this here not exagerating. What might take 15 seconds when hopping over now is less than a second. Very spiffy.

                  The upshot of this is of course that how your database is designed and to some degree used makes all the difference once the application is loaded. And I know that we're talking about initial load times.

                  But in our environment, those dang databases remain open ALL DAY LONG so two minutes to load in the morning doesn't make much of a difference since the teapot is 30 seconds away anywho.

                  The hit is that moment to moment order entry.

                  We run MILLIONS of dollars worth of purchase orders through this government facility and Alpha has never let us down. Novell network has let us down--but not Alpha.

                  But, speed is the thing and if I knew more about how to harness that query so that it would query on itself as soon as a purchase order is started we could increase our productivity (read more time for tea) a lot.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    RE: How fast is your server.

                    Russ,

                    I just had to add my 2 cents, because we probably have the largest network running in Alpha right now. We still use Alpha5 v1 as our production system. We are in the very long process of converting to ver 5. We are close, but not there yet. We have multiple servers with different applications running. Our initial server was a 256KB memory with Dual 100MHz pentium processors. This server lasted us for years with very acceptable results. We found that the biggest issue with response times is to make sure that the networking is up to par. We actually had an MS network certified specialist come in and evaluate the network. With his guidance, we tweaked things and our response is usually better than 3-5 seconds. If you are runing with XP or Win2k, force the workstations to run at the network speed, do not use automatic link speed. The system will constantly attempt to run at the higher speed, causing some contention. Set the speed of the card yourself. We are now running with Dell PowerEdge servers. Zeon processors, 1gb memory, raid drive network.

                    In our experimentation with version 5, we did find a noticeable lag on application start. Performance was completely unacceptable Shadowing helped that immensly. Once the databae did actually load, response times were OK, even unshadowed.

                    DO NOT use antivirus software on your network database folders. That will bring the entire thing to its knees.

                    Do not have antivirus scanning your runtime folder. That will affect it as well.

                    If you have any other questions, just let me know.

                    Tom

                    Comment


                      #11
                      RE: How fast is your server.

                      This is all great info and I will test it all. I didn't hear about or see this lag so much up to now but that was all smaller tables and sets. I have found so far that doing data entry on a single table speeds things up immensly ( I think Peter Wayne mentioned this sometime back)

                      I will keep on testing and modifying until it's acceptable. The users expect A4v6 like performance to be happy, so that's what I am aiming for.

                      Thanks
                      Russ

                      Comment

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