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Alpha five books question

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    #16
    RE: Alpha five books question

    Dear Richard,

    I was an Alpha 4 user and loved the manual. Years later, when I needed to use a database program, I ordered Alpha 4 and also purchased Dr. Wayne's books. I started a project and then stopped simply out of frustration, not having enough written resource material. I think that what is needed is something along the lines of what Dr. Wayne wrote but much more expansive: a manual that would take seomeone who is a beginner to advanced stages in a logical way. Given all that is written by 3rd parties for Access, etc., we need more written resources for Alpha 5.

    Ken N.

    Comment


      #17
      RE: Alpha five books question

      I have a couple of suggestions as far as books go.

      One idea is to have a sample database and show how it was designed with some xbasic to give a beginner some real help on designing and programming in Alpha.

      Another one is a book for more advanced users to give illustrations on the multitude of options of different commands that Alpha has given us. I recently have tried to program a right-click menu and found myself pretty much lost. There was no illustration of what to do.

      I love Alpha and swear by it but the lack of real demonstration by book or disk is really a problem. There is noone in the area of St. Louis where I live who I know use Alpha and I must tell you it is such a shame. I previously was a strong programmer in Q&A and Alpha was the perfect place to go after Q&A pretty much closed shop. You have a terrific product and I just wish there was more I could do locally to learn it.

      Thanks for listening!

      Comment


        #18
        RE: Alpha five books question

        Richard
        Might as well put in my two cents worth. If I may suggest the following manuals .
        1. Functions & Expressions with LOTS & LOTS of real life simple & complex examples, including nested expressions tips & tricks. A how to index pointing to the above real life examples.
        2. How to take an application from design through to distribution.
        3. Sample applications start to finish.
        A5 is a unique product without which I would not consider attempting to design systems. So far I have not had to resort to any programming (xbasic). This speaks volumes of its power & flexability. However its stability needs beefing up.
        Thanks John Gamble

        Comment


          #19
          RE: Alpha five books question

          I have used Alpha since since A5v1. I am also a programmer but have never learned to use xbasic very well. I wish that you would come up with a tutorial that built a fairly complex project. Start at a very basic level in lesson one and increase the features used in each successive lesson. By the way my email address has changed. How do I change it?

          Thanks

          Tommy Thompson

          [email protected]
          Tommy Thompson
          Thompson Consulting Services
          Beautiful Kentucky Lake, Springville, TN 38256
          [email protected]

          Comment


            #20
            RE: Alpha five books question

            Before I add my two cents regarding books and documentation let me first set the stage. I have been an Alpha Software user since day one of Alpha Four. I made the jump to Alpha Five at about version 3 and that is when my frustrations really started. I have also been programming for over twenty years in several languages and using many high-level utilities. Although most of my work has been on mid and main frame systems, I am not a novice when it comes to programming. I do not work with Alpha Five all year on a daily basis but have spent hours (and days) working with the product so I consider myself above the level of beginner - in the intermediate to advanced range. The one thing I am - a die hard Alpha Five user. I love the product.

            I have felt from day one Alpha Five documentation is very lacking and the few books that I am aware of aren�t much better. I know one person who used Alpha Four for years and then made the jump to Alpha Five. He abandoned Alpha Five after a few years and went to another product. Why? Lack of good documentation mostly. He was tired of fighting with the product to accomplish tasks that were well documented in Alpha Four. I attempted to talk him out of switching and I am not judging if his position was right or wrong but I know I have had the same frustrations many times. A5 certainly is way ahead of A4 in power and flexibility but in my opinion, also way behind on documentation.

            Alpha Four was, as advertised, �the database for non-programmers�. Over the years I recommended A4 to many people, both technical and non-technical. The recommendations extended to businesses as well for database solutions. I unfortunately do not recommend Alpha Five to non-technical people or businesses that don�t have access to programmers will out adding the disclaimer, A5 is very powerful and the best database available but it isn�t necessarily easy. The average person is not going to comprehend A5. Why? Documentation or lack there of is part of the problem.

            I agree with Allen Palmer when he stated in Message ID 461 �. . . the industry has gotten away from decent documentation for its software.� This is very true of most PC platform software documentation and Alpha Five is no exception.

            Not to �black-ball� myself, but I do not totally agree with your original message Richard when you state �. . . you who work in an Alpha Five consultant capacity can make valuable suggestions of what the more uninitiated need�. It is true that the Alpha Five consultants certainly have the knowledge base to provide valuable input. Unfortunately most programmers and system people are the worst source for input because they (we) frequently don�t see or realize that the very simple and/or basic things are exactly what the �uninitiated� need or are searching for.

            Many manuals and books of the �beginner� variety are written by people who are very knowledgeable on the given subject and they either assume or just don�t realize that the audience that will be reading their text don�t have a clue about the basics. This is often true with �advanced� text too. We forget the �kiss� approach - �Keep it simple stupid�. I have written manuals and documentation for both technical and user audiences. When writing, especially for users, I have to keep reminding myself �my audience is comprised of total idiots�. This is not a true statement, but when writing, one has to assume the audience knows nothing.

            Last week I experienced another example of my frustration with Alpha Five documentation. The task was very simple - add a second field to the QUERY.ORDER code in an existing Xbasic program. The User�s Guide, The Professional Edition Reference, A5 Online Help, Xbasic Online Help, Dr. Wayne�s Xbasic for Everyone and a search of the Forum Message Board did not provide me with the answer. One of the texts provided the field limit for QUERY.ORDER but all text and examples showed only a single field, ex: QUERY.ORDER = �Last_Name�. I would expect to find �QUERY.ORDER� in the index of a book and then find discussion and/or examples of both single and multiple fields. �QUERY.ORDER� is not in the index and the discussion for .query_create() offered no information for multiple fields.

            What did I do when the documentation and message board failed me? What I typically do - I �tinkered�. I first attempted to add the second field using every variation of an expression that I could think of. I even dreamed up a few new ones that didn�t work. I will also add that the syntax checker in the Code Editor is usually useless. It doesn�t trap many errors but then maybe it was never intended to do so. Since I knew query could order records using multiple fields I used the Query Genie to create a query and then used the ORDER_QUERY_GET to trap the code (and syntax) in a variable. I was successful but what should have been a five minute change and another five minutes to test and insure I got the desired results ended up taking about three hours. I realize the answer may have been in front of me at some point and I missed it. I also believe that if I worked with the product five plus days a week I would be one of the Alpha Five �gurus� and a simple issue like this would be a �no brainer�. The problem is I am not an A5 guru and suspect I represent the majority of A5 users. I have played out the above scenario in many areas, many times, spending countless hours digging in the books, on the forum, etc. and attempting to figure out a solution that should have been readily available in the manuals. Our documentation needs help.

            I totally agree with Peter Greulich in Message ID 463 when he states �. . . one of the most helpful tools for developers and users is lots of examples� and � . . . it would be similarly helpful if many of the subtleties of Alpha were brought out . . � Examples are one of the best tools for learning and even for inspiration.

            The current A5 documentation isn�t necessarily bad but it is also only a good beginning or more appropriate, a good first draft. It occurs to me that many of the examples are repeated over and over again in the text and these examples are usually very basic. Each element needs to be expanded. My latest exercise in frustration is one example. We have been given an example on how to set the query order for a single field but did any tech writer read the text and ask the question - Can multiple fields be used for order? If they did ask the question why wasn�t an example given or the user pointed to the text explaining how to do it? The additional example would add one or two more lines to the book. I realize adding lines of text results in additional pages but in so doing the book�s audience is expanded to include �beginners� through �advanced� users.

            There is certainly room for �beginner� books and �advanced� books, but much of this information can be integrated into the same publication and in my opinion serves both the publisher/author and user well. The advanced user will scan the elementary information until they get to the level of text they are looking for. The �beginner� will read the elementary information because it is what they need. If both the basic and more advanced information doesn�t exist, everyone is left hanging. One problem I frequently encounter with publications targeting �advanced� users - �advanced� is relative to your knowledge base. All to often the author of an �advanced� text starts so far into the subject matter that many people are in over their heads on the onset or for others, the �advanced� text really doesn�t go beyond what they already know.

            The way to improve the documentation, although not practical, would be to hire a non-programmer or programmer with very little experience. Supply him or her with manuals and the specs for some complex databases and let them start working. They would very quickly start pointing out the shortcomings of the documentation when they started asking questions.

            I am not opposed to spending money on good solid documentation. My problem is and continues to be finding good documentation. I seem to keep adding bookshelves to hold volumes of what I consider to be inadequate books. The answer exists in bits and pieces spread over several books but not in one comprehensive publication. I go nuts sometimes jumping from book to book looking for a simple answer. It is even worse when I am jumping back and forth in Acrobat or help text.

            I am encouraged when you state �......written and made available to them through Alpha Software.� I prefer text written by the same people who designed and wrote the software. I resent buying a product and then being forced to buy third party books to understand what I already paid for.

            I also prefer the printed text. Online help is great for quick reference but when it is time to �dig in� there is no substitute for the printed book. I can�t make notes in the margin or highlight text on the help screen. I agree with Gary Ogle in Message ID 472 when he states �Heck, sometimes I just want to get away from the computer entirely and read the manual in the living room, or even take it to bed with me�.

            If information is going to be split into more than one book, my suggestion would be to basically follow what you have already done.

            1, A beginners or User�s Guide containing the very basic as well as more advanced concepts of Alpha Five and database. This would be the book for everyone. Extensive hands on tutorial(s) would be helpful. The audio tapes that you did for Alpha Four were exceptional tools for learning. I missed them when I switched to A5.

            2. A true a reference book is a must. I thought the published A5 Version 3 Professional Edition Reference was on track. The same is true for the version 4 PDF book. I just find the PDF or online version is more cumbersome to use. Both documents need more examples or more appropriately, expanded examples covering every parameter or facet of an element or command. Dr. Wayne�s Xbasic for Everyone has numerous examples of code. I have used his book extensively for examples and as a basis to accomplish what I am attempting to do. My only problem is that once I refer back to the other manuals I don�t find what I am looking for. Again I refer to my experience last week and QUERY.ORDER using multiple fields. The information for multiple fields was not in any book - at least that I could find. My point would be - if it does exist, it is not in a location that I would expect to find it, namely with the QUERY_CREATE discussion. I suspect most others would agree with me on this point. Each facet needs to be explained and/or an example given. The lack of �compete� documentation has repeatedly caused me frustration and hours of searching or �experimenting� to do what documentation could have or �should have� provided.

            I always like to see programming reference books with sample programs. The samples should have commentary on what each part or block of code is doing and in some cases, why. I have always used the sample databases provided with A4 and A5 to get a handle on how to write (Action Scripting, Xbasic, Field Rules, etc). The problem is the samples don�t have the commentary so I am left at times to �tinker� with it and figure out what is really happening and to get an understanding of �how to proceed�. Then I proceed wondering if I am writing solid and efficient code. Experience certainly plays a big part in learning what is solid and efficient, what to do and not to do, but good documentation aids in the learning curve. Written text can contain the commentary in great detail and in many publications it is included to the right of the code. This is very helpful. The root of my frustration is that I have other things to do and tinkering around to figure something out, especially when the manual should supply the answer, isn�t usually on my daily task list.

            3. Additional books should cover specific topics and are typically more advanced and target a specific area and/or audience, ex: A5 and the internet.

            I would also like to add the Forum Message Board is great. I have found many answers and solutions on the board just logging in daily and monitoring what other people are asking and/or saying. Unfortunately I don�t have the luxury to log in every day of the year so I miss a lot of information. Fortunately the search function allows me to target specific issues. I will admit that I am hesitant at times to post questions to the board. As a programmer I am accustom to �digging in� and really hate to ask basic �duh?� questions. �Digging in� also results in better learning and retaining more information or as is often said - no pain, no gain. Unfortunately sometimes the board is the only resource left to obtain the simple answer.

            I would pose the following question regarding the message board. Does anyone at Alpha monitor the board for the simple questions and then research why and/or where the documentation failed? Are these failures then corrected in the documentation for future release?

            One �off the cuff� idea: Create a �documentation failure� board where we could post the really �stupid simple� questions that couldn�t be resolved in the Alpha books and documentation. These failures could then be addressed by Alpha tech writers and the documentation updated if warranted. Updated documentation could even be made available as a periodic download. Not as good as a printed book but better than no answer. This would leave the forum for the sticky, complex issues and would provide a vehicle for improving Alpha documentation over the long haul. Probably not a feasible idea.

            I realize this was more then two cents worth - more like a buck two-ninety. You asked for a bale and I gave you a wagon load. If I don�t wrap this up, it will almost become a book in it�s self. At this point I am not interested in the publication of specific titles or topics but more interested in the content of the existing documentation. I am interested in better �beginner� tools so I can confidently recommend Alpha Five to non-programmers. I suspect better beginners tools would merit me as well as others. I can�t think of an appropriate adjective to describe Alpha Five as a product. Great, Marvelous, Wonderful all come to mind. I know creating good documentation is a extremely intense and difficult task - unfortunately also a necessary one. Now if the documentation can be raised to level same level as the product, you might just conquer the world.

            Sincerely,

            John De Jong, Jr.

            P.S. I suspect my comments will generate some hate mail and disagreement. I would be interested in others comments so please E-mail me with your thoughts - good or bad.

            E-mail me at [email protected] Or [email protected]

            Comment


              #21
              RE: Alpha five books question

              Hi John,

              I don't think your message will generate hate-mail. Since you are not using profane language, operating anonomously or taking personal shots or being totally unreasonable, I think most people here on the message board have no problem with you saying your point of view. I have a couple of comments to what you said, so read on.

              It is true that the Alpha Five consultants certainly have the knowledge base to provide valuable input. Unfortunately most programmers and system people are the worst source for input because they (we) frequently don�t see or realize that the very simple and/or basic things are exactly what the �uninitiated� need or are searching for.

              That's true of programmers, but not of consultants (particularly A5 consultants). Many of our clients generate code (despite a knowledge of programming) and we are constantly teaching them and learning where their misunderstandings are. Many of us are or have been involved with user's groups (and the message board) where we have seen and answered questions that range from the sublime to stupid.

              Your example of query.order shows exactly why an online manual is so important. query.order is not a function or operation, but an internal variable. I keep the online version (PDF) handy and constantly do searches for items and words

              The other thing to always do is to record the operation and see what code is generated. Like all languages, the documentation is always lagging the program features, and this shows items that may not be documented.

              I also prefer the printed text. Online help is great for quick reference but when it is time to �dig in� there is no substitute for the printed book. I can�t make notes in the margin or highlight text on the help screen.

              While you can't annotate the help file, you can annotate the word or PDF manuals on disk. I do it all the time.

              Finally, the biggest impetus to the better 3rd Party documentation (despite the fact no one likes to pay for it) is the fact that it is not cost effective. The time involved to write a book for an author versus the return for his time is extremely small, even with large programs like Access. If you don't sell enough,
              you have basically worked on your own time. As the user base for A5 becomes larger, the risk decreases.

              In the mean time, at least we have a useful message board as a resource (which is more than many Access programmers claim)!

              Regards,

              Ira J. Perlow
              Computer Systems Design & Associates
              [email protected]
              Regards,

              Ira J. Perlow
              Computer Systems Design


              CSDA A5 Products
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              CSDA Code Utility
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              Comment


                #22
                RE: Alpha five books question

                What is "PDF" stand for?

                Thanks,
                Dave Breen

                Comment


                  #23
                  RE: Alpha five books question

                  Ira,
                  Your reply is right on the money.
                  Keep up good work.
                  Al

                  Comment


                    #24
                    RE: Alpha five books question

                    David,

                    Portable Document Format (PDF) was originated (I believe) by Adobe. There Acrobat Reader is probably the 2nd or 3rd most popular download and plug-in oon the web. The Acrobat Distiller (Which essentially means writer) allows for creating and changing the document but costs about $100 to $250. Other distillers of various degrees of quality are out there. The Adobe version also has a printer definition that writes PDF files.

                    Documents in PDF preserve the exact look and content of the originals, complete with fonts and graphics, and they can be distributed by e-mail or stored on the World Wide Web, an intranet, a file system, or a CD-ROM for other users to view on Microsoft Windows, Mac OS, UNIX, Linux and other platforms.

                    The other format is Microsoft Word DOC, which Alpha also supplies.

                    PDF files are more usable on screen according to most, but this may be just the fact that Word does not have a Viewer only mode per say. Anyway, choose the format that you like best.

                    Regards,

                    Ira J. Perlow
                    Computer Systems Design & Associates
                    [email protected]
                    Regards,

                    Ira J. Perlow
                    Computer Systems Design


                    CSDA A5 Products
                    New - Free CSDA DiagInfo - v1.39, 30 Apr 2013
                    CSDA Barcode Functions

                    CSDA Code Utility
                    CSDA Screen Capture


                    Comment


                      #25
                      RE: Alpha five books question

                      One thing I omitted from my original suggestion is a complete listing of Alpha Five Error Codes and messages. Along with that, it would be very helpful to have arecommended solution to resolve the problem caused by an error. Finally, if anyone out there has any clue, please explain to me the meaning of the "No error" error message. I'm guessing some programmer used it as a way of handling an unknown error, but if that is the case, it should have stated that exactly.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        RE: Alpha five books question

                        John,

                        Your reply is excellent. As someone trying to move from A4 to A5 I concur completely.

                        My current hiccup was trying to apply a dynamic filter to a set. Can't see where to set my variable "company" = to the field "Comp_ID".

                        "Everything is simple once you understand it".

                        Steve

                        Comment


                          #27
                          RE: Alpha five books question

                          Is there some clever person who could make documentation available live on line in a manner that we can search it and perhaps add to it? Either live like this board, or mediated so it got properly cross referenced? Isn't HTML supposed to excel at this?

                          Comment


                            #28
                            RE: Alpha five books question

                            I began using Alpha4 years ago and am currently using Alpha5 although I really liked Alpha4 better (strangely, I had great fun with the color charts) but found it a problem to use in windows so now its Alpha5 - The documentation that came with it was disappointing - Alpha4 had much more helpful manuals and I still refer to them. What I would really like is a book that deals with functions and expressions that not only told you about the functions but gave several examples of practical things that one may want to do. One I would love to see explained is how to get a date field to automatically fill in another field that would express the date as yyyy.mm It would be nice to have this as a separate book. As you have things now, the user really needs to purchase additional books to get very far - hope you go back to doing the kind of top quality documentation you did on Alpha4 - they were the most helpful manuals I have ever gotten with ANY program!

                            Comment


                              #29
                              RE: Alpha five books question

                              Tips for learning:


                              Examples, examples, examples!

                              I learn best from examples.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                RE: Alpha five books question

                                My preference is as a new user of any software is an brief introductory work along tutorial. Then I want need to need-to-know. Then lots of HOW TO... My frustration is with "lazy writers". When you finally find what you are looking for, the documentation does not TELL YOU WHERE to do the work.

                                Spend your time designing a standard format for the information. Then use it. How to ..: can be used for: Attact this script or xbasic to a button...
                                Nello

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