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Citrix Server Installation and Shadow Databases

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    Citrix Server Installation and Shadow Databases

    I have an app. designed in v5 and currently runs on a server with about 10 users accessing it. Each of the users has a Shadow Database on their local desktops and a runtime version running on locally. All is fine...

    This will be another 8 remote users accessing the app. (from a different country) via a Citrix Server. I know very little about Citrix. My question is, should the app. be running on the Citrix Server or still on the current server? If it has to run on the Citrix server, how will the local users accessing the app. vs. the remote users? or is the Citrix server just a vehicle for remote users to come through but actually run the app. on the server?

    Some of these questions might be confusing and maybe dumb? but all info. and help will be greatly appreciated.

    Thx
    Kris

    #2
    RE: Citrix Server Installation and Shadow Database

    We have the kind of installation you describe and we run the application on the Citrix server and the local users are mapped to and shadowed from the citrix box. Seems to work fine for us.....but maybe somebody knows a better way.

    Bob Whitaker
    Bob Whitaker

    Comment


      #3
      RE: Citrix Server Installation and Shadow Database

      We run remote sites dialing in through Citrix, but, in version 1, there was no such thing as Shadowed databases. The function of Citrix was to allow for the passing of DATA only back and forth to a relatively thin client. If there is some way to make the citrix box strickly a pass-through, then I would think that the shadow would accomplish what Citrix is doing now.

      An even better bet would be to use the upcomming web-based alpha and bypass citrix altogether!

      Tom

      Comment


        #4
        RE: Citrix Server Installation and Shadow Database

        Thx for the replys...

        Currently, I can't wait for the upcoming Web based Alpha... the main question seems to be that if even the local users are accessing the app. thru Citrix, then there might not be any need for Shadow databases and have all the runtime files on the server with little or no degregation in speed. Am I missing something things here?

        Thx
        kris

        Comment


          #5
          RE: Citrix Server Installation and Shadow Database

          One way os setting all this up is to have two servers:
          Server1 holds tha Alpha application
          Server2 is the Terminal Services ( Citrix ) machine
          If this is the scenario, then shadowing the app from Server1 would definately speed things up. You would be eliminating a bunch of traffic between the two servers

          Comment


            #6
            RE: Citrix Server Installation and Shadow Database

            I just checked our Citrix server. I have a single runtime folder on it, and all of our remote users, when they sign in, access the programs in the runtime folder. I would then imagine that if you were to place the shadowed databases into the runtime folder, then your users would be able to access the shadowed databases on the Citrix server, and not need a runtime on their own machines.

            The more I thought about it, the more I remembered that citrix only passes screens to the remote machines. there is no actual processing at the remote site, only what citrix requires. The PC's at the remote locations are actually only a keyboard and monitor for the virtual machine on the citrix server.

            Tom

            Comment


              #7
              RE: Citrix Server Installation and Shadow Database

              John,

              Let me see if I understand this properly... My app. the way it is will reside on SERVER1 with the 15 shadow databases on the local desktops, SERVER2 will have the Citrix Server. So I am assuming the app. doesn't have to reside on the Citrix Server itself. When remote users login to the app. thru Citrix, they will actually be running the app. on server1 ? Guess it is up to the lan administrator to somehow map the Citrix Server to Server1 ?

              If that is the case, then I would still need to put the Runtime files on Server1 for the remote users and of course the runtime files for all the local users are on their respective desktops...

              Am I understanding this correctly?

              kris

              Comment


                #8
                RE: Citrix Server Installation and Shadow Database

                Tom,

                The way I am understand it, if all users login to the app. thru Citrix, they will all be running the same Runtime from the server and there would be NO need for shadow databases. Makes sense?

                Kris

                Comment


                  #9
                  RE: Citrix Server Installation and Shadow Database

                  We run 14 Citrix servers for our internet-based application. Alpha AND the application run completely on the servers and, except in one instance, there is no shadowing.

                  In general, shadowing will not help if your server is fast and has enough memory. The performance on our servers (multi-processor 1 or 2 gigs ram) is so fast without shadowing that it's not worth the effort.

                  When the users logon to the Citrix server, the local machine drives are remapped by the server and are visible FROM the Citrix server as V (C), U (D) and so on.

                  The speed of communication between the server and the workstation will depends on the speed of the network link between them. However, Citrix communications with the local machine are not optimized in any way, so I don't see that shadowing would be better than running the entire thing on the server.

                  Finian
                  Finian

                  Comment


                    #10
                    RE: Citrix Server Installation and Shadow Database

                    Runtime would be on the Citrix server, so the shadow should also be there. If there is no shadow, then the file server would still need to serve out the database and all of it's dictionaries. Shadowing would still be helpful.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      RE: Citrix Server Installation and Shadow Database

                      Finian,
                      I assume your sitiation has the Alpha application ( data and dictionaries ) residing on the same machine that the users log onto.If that is the case there is absolutely no reason to optimize - there is no network traffic to reduce.
                      If that is not the case, then optimizing the way Tom Henkel describes ( from the data server to the citrix machine ) will speed things up regardless of the speed of the server.
                      In this case you would reduce network traffic between servers.

                      John

                      Comment


                        #12
                        RE: Citrix Server Installation and Shadow Database

                        Tom,

                        I might not be getting it... but if all of the processing is taking place on the Citrix server, I fail to understand why a shadow is needed.... especially ON THE SERVER ?

                        Kris

                        Comment


                          #13
                          RE: Citrix Server Installation and Shadow Database

                          Your Citrix server may or may not be the same computer as the file server that contains the actual DBF files. If they are two different computers, you should still shadow from the file server. I think this is probably how Tom's network is set up.

                          Citrix tends to place a very heavy load on the server and it is a good idea to keep the servers seperate, even with a small number of users. If you do not, the local users could see a significant reduction in performance.

                          -Lenny

                          Lenny Forziati
                          Vice President, Internet Products and Technical Services
                          Alpha Software Corporation

                          Comment


                            #14
                            RE: Citrix Server Installation and Shadow Database

                            Lenny,

                            I guess what you are saying is that I should have the app. along with the dbf files running on Server1 (not a Citrix server), then have the remote users come thru the Citrix server (server2) and run the app. on server1. Server1 will have the shadow databases for the local users as I have now.

                            Guess my question is, when the remore users come thru the citrix server and run the app. on server1, where are the runtime files located? on server1, the citrix server2 ??

                            Thanks for your help and info.

                            Kris

                            Comment


                              #15
                              RE: Citrix Server Installation and Shadow Database

                              In the scenario you describe the runtime files would be onthe Citrix box (server 2) running the application shadowed from the main server (server 1). Yiu have to imagine that your external users will be running the app as if they were sat in front of the citrix box so you need to configure your installation with that thought in mind. With regard to the overehead citrix puts on its server I think given the power of machines available it is not a big issue, certainly we haven't found it to be yet.

                              Bob Whitaker
                              Bob Whitaker

                              Comment

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