Tables still open with dialog forms

[Raymond Lyons]

A couple of recent patches still have not fixed the bug in which tables opened by a print job run from a form opened as a dialog stay open after the form is closed. This not only results in an error when one then attempts to get exclusive access to those tables, but after that error, A5 is unusable and has to be closed.

Jerry Brightbill suggested a workaround for this but at least for code generated by action scripting, I can't get it to work. And given 2 or 3 recent patches I had hoped I would have to fool with workarounds.

As a possibly separate issue, how exactly is one supposed to use a button created with action scripting that loads a form as a hidden dialog? I guess just convert it to xbasic and add whatever one needs? This is not a bug, just a curiosity.

The open tables thing is a bug.

We need more bugs fixed!

Ray

[Jim Chapman]

RE: Tables still open with dialog forms

Hello Ray,

In the Action Scripting 'Open a Form' genie, there is a Tab called 'Options' I believe. It is found there.

Jim

[JerryBrightbill]

RE: Tables still open with dialog forms

When is a bug a bug? An interesting question. If there is a simple workaround, it may be annoying, but not a problem that is a show stopper and therefore may not require immediate action.

The solution I proposed is very easy to do in Action Scriping. If you are previewing the report from a button, first use action scripting to create an action to hide the current form.

Add New Action
Select "Window Commands" from Category
Select "Hide Window" from Action
Select "Current form or browse" to hide.
Save action

Then create the action to preview a report, selecting the options desired.

Then create another action to show the current window using the same process as above, but substituting "Show Window" from the actions.

The above process took at least a minute or two to complete, and about the same to test. It does work.

Jerry

[Peter.Greulich]

RE: Tables still open with dialog forms

Ray,

If the issue is previewing from a dialog: in action scripting you can make the preview window modal, then it will work correctly. If that is not acceptable, you have to do what Jerry suggested, which is what i used to do until the modal thing came along in v.5.

Peter

[Raymond Lyons]

RE: Tables still open with dialog forms

Jerry,

I already had my own workaround for the problem (maximizing the form in my case was a good enough substitute for a dialog form) and I either misunderstood what you were proposing or mis-remembered what it was when I checked the newest patches for fixes. Your workaround works, as does what Peter suggested. But I have several comments:

First, how easy a workaround is depends on your level of expertise and on your knowing about a particular workaround. If these kinds of clear bugs (described as such by no less than Selwyn himself) are never fixed just because a workaround exists, then I think Alpha ought to seriously consider putting out a document listing the problems and their workarounds. You and I and many others can come up with our own workarounds, but many A5 users, especially new ones, will just get frustrated, possibly to the point of giving up on the product. I am currently trying to get a tech person turned on to A5, but with this kind of thing popping up too often just the opposite is happening.

I do agree that bug fixes should be prioritized, and for me personally the one I focused on is not all that important. But I maintain that these kinds of bugs that either never get fixed or are slow to be fixed are a significant drag on Alpha Five becoming more widely used and respected. We need more of the scenario in which someone reports a bug on the forum and very soon after there appears a response about it being fixed.

Ray

[JerryBrightbill]

RE: Tables still open with dialog forms

Ray

While what you say has merit, there are many ways to approach the issue of program errors. One is to acknowledge that they are inevitable and exist in all software and be open about the issues and workarounds. A relatively small company like Alpha with one flagship product can only exist if they keep advancing the product and giving all of us lemmings something new to buy. They have to balance this need for income for survival with the need to fix any and all problems.

I personally think they do an amazing job and are very open about imperfections and frequently show ways to get around the limitations. The fact that updates are both frequent and no cost is NOT an industry standard. Some people take the frequent updates as a sign that there are many problems, not as a response to fix any problem, no matter how minor, as quickly as possible. But every action has a priority. A problem may only exist for a very limited number of users. What cost is justified to fix these?

The other approach is one taken by many major software companies. First, many do not even acknowledge their software has "bugs". Any problem is because of user error. Updates are very rare and sometimes come with a cost. They claim their lack of updates is a sign of a lack of errors in the program, rather than the result of poor support and lack of concern for the user. Instead of fixing bugs, you may have to buy the "new" version to get the updates (features). The buggiest program I use is Microsoft Word and I am not alone.

Which approach do you want?

When was the last time you saw the owner of a company respond on the user forum? Or the actual programmer post a solution to a problem?

Jerry

[Raymond Lyons]

RE: Tables still open with dialog forms

Jerry

�Which approach do you want?�

Neither, at least as I think you have outlined them. I did not say they need to fix any and all problems no matter how minor. I am fine with the approach Alpha has taken except to note that that has slipped a bit too much with the push to get v6 out the door. For a while at least the balance got pretty much to be 100% focus on v6 development and no bug fixes. Once they came back to fixing bugs in v5 I simply hoped more would get fixed than were addressed in the recent series of patches. And I tried to make a case, with one example, for fixing more genuine bugs rather than just letting them slide. As I said, I believe there is also a cost to not fixing some of these bugs, namely that some users less committed than you and me will get turned off to what is without doubt one of the best software products on the market. From my own limited experience with trying to get some fairly savvy computer people hooked on using Alpha Five, I know my concern is a valid one.

Ray