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A5v5 and using Win98

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    #1

    A5v5 and using Win98

    OK, this really isn't about using A5v5 with Win98. It's really a message to all those people who complain about others using Win98. I read a couple more tonight while searching and just had to comment on it.

    I would be very happy to switch to XP Pro BUT most of my customers (thankfully not all of them) are still using Win98. So, do I develop in XP then tell my customers that they will have to pay $4000 for the new application and $10,000 for all new computers because I didn't make sure the app would run correctly on Win98 - I think not!

    True, they could save some money by upgrading but most of their machines are old enough that I don't recommend upgrading them. Besides, brand new XP installations seem to be more reliable than upgrades so add the cost of the upgrade software plus paying someone to upgrade their computers plus the cost of additional memory, which would be a minimum requirement, and they may as well just buy new computers - which they aren't willing to do!

    Heck, I just got one customer to get rid of a 486 about a year and a half ago so they could move up to A5v4 - but they put in someone else's old computer that is something like a P133 with 32 meg of RAM so they're still running v1 because I don't think it's worth the effort yet.

    Is XP Pro the better way to go - Absolutely!

    Is it realistic to ask my customers to upgrade to XP Pro - Not a chance!

    To those of you who don't have this problem, I truly envy you. However, please quit belittling those of us who face a different reality.

    Personally, I will probably buy a second computer with XP sometime this summer rather than upgrading my current one. This will allow me to keep a Win98 machine around so I can test my apps in Win98 before installing them at customer locations that are still using that version of Windows.
    Tags: None
    #2
    RE: A5v5 and using Win98

    Cal:
    for what it's worth, you are doing things the right way. We also have many clients still using Win98se, so we develop for them on a Win98se computer. I have had no problems with clients running XP Pro running apps designed on Win98se. Also, I always suggest that a new computer with XP Pro installed is the right way to go, as opposed to an upgrade.

    Comment

      #3
      RE: A5v5 and using Win98

      Hello Cal:

      Win XP is in fact Win 2000 with a much fancier interface and enhanced functionality. Some people like the changes while others are actually confused by all that is happening. Win 2000 uses the same core operating system as XP without much of the clatter, plus it has the added benefit of looking and feeling very much like Win 98. However, unlike Win 98, you won�t have System Resource problems with Win 2K. For example, now I reboot once a month instead of once or twice a day.

      So in my opinion, if your customers can find Win 2K at a very reasonable cost, I think that might be a better option. I haven�t checked around, but I would hazard a guess that it�s cheaper than XP. Of course they would probably have to bump up memory, but you can get a 256K module for less than $30, or a 128K module for less than $20.

      I�m sure you�re probably thinking that for many of your customers, even that might be overkill. You�re probably right Cal, but I couldn�t resist throwing my thoughts into the discussion.

      Robert T.

      Comment

        #4
        RE: A5v5 and using Win98

        Hi Cal,

        You are right in designing on a Win 98 system. In fact, I check my development on a Win 98 1st edition running at 300 Mhz. (I could if need be, check it on a 233 Mhz PC as well), running in an even smaller memory size (48M to 64M).

        This is the only way to see the performance and other issues that a faster, newer computer might hide.

        On the other hand, I always try to get my clients to move up to a faster computer with more memory, as in most cases, the timed saved has a direct cost benefit in more productivity or less salary cost.

        But forcing a client to upgrade when there is no benefit is a great way to lose a client.

        Regards,

        Ira
        Regards,

        Ira J. Perlow
        Computer Systems Design


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        Comment

          #5
          RE: A5v5 and using Win98

          Cal:

          This is an interesting topic, as I am presently running 4 different operating systems to simulate all my clients.

          I am running Windows 2000 server, Windows XP Pro (on domain), Win98SE, and Windows XP Home on my network. (Look into a Linksys KVM switch - it's great.)

          Amongst those are an assortment of processors to simulate the speed of the scripts and refreshing issues on slower machines.

          It is all required in an effort to avoid the need to actually go to a clients location any more than necessary. I guess it would be safe to say that, in addition to developing software, I am also the outsourced IT department for small several companies.

          It also helps to have drives and folders permanently mapped to simulate the client in the event you need to hard code the paths to folders on a server. Some designate the server as drive 'g', 'm', 'z', etc...

          What I have found, in all of this, is that computer/processor speed is a very large issue, while the operating system only results in small issues periodically.

          By large issue, I mean that, while I develop on a 2.4 gig machine, I test on the slowest machine onto which the application is to be installed. There is nothing worse that showing a new client an application with scripts, reports, and forms that take 'forever' to run/load/fan through. Though I do my best to follow the logic of lessons learned in the past, the smallest error can cause all sorts of delays on slower machines. It is better to optimize them for speed before rather than after, and this is sometimes hard to do on a fast machine!

          One such operating system issue is with the stability of the operating system and how it effects A5. That is to say that a bug in my application may force A5 to close in 98SE with no error message and a 'forced exception', while XP will show a somewhat cryptic Alpha Software error message, allow the user to close the error dialog, and allow the user to continue working in Alpha Five. In other words, XP reveals what the problem is within my application, where SE hides the error message and closes.

          Windows 2000 appears to be close to if not as stable as XP with regard to the 'forced exceptions' in 98SE.

          As far as developing, I use XP (the faster machines), and test on the others when needed. There are subtle differences on occasion.

          Further compounding my overall picture is that I have applications running out there in three versions of Alpha. The whole thing gets a little confusing at times...

          Sorry if this post is a bit disjointed; I've been typing it between phone calls all morning.

          Just thought I'd add my comments... I guess I'm happy that others are trying to head off issues in the same manner. I guess I'm not too far off base.

          Good luck in your planning!

          Craig

          Comment

            #6
            RE: A5v5 and using Win98

            Craig

            Excellent thoughts. I try to do much the same and see similar results. One of the unpredictable problems that can't always be tested is conflicts with print drivers and software on the customers computer.

            I do it somewhat differently. I have a small network with each computer using a different operating system and a typical configuration for the era of the computer. The Win98 is a 300 pentium, the WinME is a 700 Celeron, the WinXP is a 2.4 pentium 4, etc. Not only can I test each operationg system, but I can test network configurations.

            Jerry

            Comment

              #7
              RE: A5v5 and using Win98

              A product you may find useful is VMware Workstation. It gives you virtual machines on a single PC and allows you to run multiple operating systems simultaneously. Each "virtual machine" is separate from the others so you can also use it to test network applications. We use it here to help reduce the number of systems we have to keep around for testing purposes.

              -Lenny

              Lenny Forziati
              Vice President, Internet Products and Technical Services
              Alpha Software Corporation

              Comment

                #8
                RE: A5v5 and using Win98

                1) WinXP costs $200 big $ out of real money ( my wallet, as a retiree) I remember when OS upgrades were $25. 2) WinXP will not run my old BASIC programs written in 1984-87. 3) I spend more time writing programs than running them. 4) why pay more $ to get anoher OS which is poorly written?

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