Selwyn question

[forskare]

RE: Selwyn question

Hi Bradley,

"But, between telling me I was going to get a written copy of the manual,"

When was this stated, I don't remember hearing anything at the conferences nor have I read anything to this effect other than after th release of v5, it was stated that Alpha was working with a 3rd party to have printed manuals available. They'll come, be patient.

"functions not working so "easily" as promissed,"

Selwyn was under alot of pressure to release v5. Everyone, except possibly you, knew there would be bugs and Selwyn & crew have been working more than overtime to get the bugs ironed out. If you've followed this board at all, you know that Selwyn has even provided answers for real life situations, situations that have to do with a developer/user, not a bug. No doubt, Access is bug free and Bill & crew will drop what they're doing to fix a little something for you.

"not being able to install it on more than 1 computer (need it on my laptop and my backup computer cause I can NOT afford to be down, along with the ability to install it on new harddrives when I upgrade, etc, etc, etc.),"

Oh Bradly, were you not watching, listening or reading? You can install on a 2nd computer and you can install on a new hard drive. Alpha makes that very clear

"and numerous other reasons,"

Are you sure there are numeropus other reason? Don't mention the price, please. We've all been down that road.

"I'm turning in my Alpha Hat. Besides, my Version 4 application is working reasonably well and there's just no way I can invest the time and effort to fix all of the problems with moving my application to V5."

If you don't have the time and effort to fix all of the problems with moving my application to V5, where do you think you'll find the time and effort to move to Access?

Don't let your emotions rule the roost. You'll end up on the short end of the stick.

kenn

[Bradley Chesnut]

RE: Selwyn question

On 8/13 I got a phone call from a Reanna that v.5 has been released & thatI was eligible for credit from v4.5 order. Her phone # & ext is 800-385-5490 x-157. She told me I'd get a written copy of the manual as the reason to order thru her versus just downloading it.

My main reason for V5 was the integration with email, Word and Excel. I see documentation showing these features but not documentation on "how" to integrate it. Plus, there's a lot of new layout changes where there's no documentation discussing it. I personally wasn't aware that this was a BETA copy with minimal documentation. If I had been aware of that I would've waited. I am certain A5 will work hard to move it from BETA to general release but that means I won't be able to use it til then (I'm not a believer of businesses BETA testing software).

I'm in a unique situation, so I believe. My LIFE is my A5V4 application. It runs my business and without it, I'm dead in the water! Bottomline! Therefore, I install A5 on each of my computers. Plus, because of a divorce, I have a home in CO and ID where my ex moved to. I have joint custody. So, I'm in ID when it's my time with the kids and in CO the other times so I need to be able to mirror my computers. That means I'd have A5 installed on 2 puters in CO (1 is a backup) and 2 in ID (1 is a backup) and on my laptop for when I travel. Right or wrong, I'm NOT going to take a chance of my puter crashing and me being dead in the water and not able to service and support my customers, nor be able to follow up with prospects as promised. This is how I've managed to be the #1 region for the company and maintain the highest level of customer satisfaction company wide, all of which is very important to me. Call me paranoid, or call me smart, but this is how I function.

I don't want to throw in the A5 towel. I know Selwyn is working hard. I even saw a message about a users guide stating it was going to be out in a week (by Aug 20th). Still nothing.

A5 and I have come a long ways together. Between limitations of installing it, poor documentation (or none) to add in the email/word integration and other new features, filtered indexes not working in it carried forward from v4, etc, I just don't know what to do.

Plus, I desperately want to write a commercial program for the industry I've been in for the past 17 years instead of just representing others but feel the cost of the run-time is just way too much money, or the upgrade charge for my other reps to use v5 is way too much money.

I could go on and on. Maybe I'm being ignorant or maybe I see the writing on the wall here, but over the years I've watched many companies start out on the right path and then when they think they've arrived they jump the price up with big ego's thinking they're the best. We're still in a society where the dollar bill is king and such a huge increase in purchase/upgrade of the product will be the downfall, with the exception of those loyal followers. I've been one of those loyal followers but at this point in my life I've hit a cross-road where important decisions must be made, and whatever that decision is it will be a decision I'll have to follow for the next 10+ years. A5 or Access? Right now, unless I can solutions to A5 are presented, it's Access. Please understand, it's not an emotional decision, but a business decision.

[Ohlen Cartmell]

RE: Selwyn question

Bradley,

You make an excellent argument for staying with V4.5. You have a mature application that serves you well and the learning curve to V5 is simply not worth it to you. As much as I'd like to have your experience and advice on this board relative to V5, I honestly think you've made the right decision for you in staying with the earlier version.

You say:
>>On 8/13 I got a phone call from a Reanna that v.5 has been released & thatI was eligible for credit from v4.5 order. Her phone # & ext is 800-385-5490 x-157. She told me I'd get a written copy of the manual as the reason to order thru her versus just downloading it.

[Bradley Chesnut]

RE: Selwyn question

I learned, after the fact, that once you activate the software you loose out on the money back guarantee (I didn't read the warning on the activation screen, but just simply activated assuming I would continue being an Alpha user). Having been a loyal, long-term Alpha user, I never dreamed in a million years that I would ever consider a refund.

Personally, I think what happened was good. Since my first posting in this thread, I've gain much more knowledge on v5. I still have two issues, but I know they'll get worked out. Bottom line is, I'm pretty dang impressed with v5!!

Those who read my earlier replies and those who answered them, I'm sorry for being off base. Thank you for your feedback along the way as I tried to sort through this problem.

I will continue running A5 for my business, but I do believe Access XP is still the better choice for a commercial application to be distributed out to a potential of 30,000+ businesses (Life and Health insurance agencies).

As I continue down my learning road of Alpha 5v5, I'll down the road make my final conclusion, but for now ...

WOULD SOMEBODY PLEASE SEND ME THE USERS MANUAL! :)

Yes, this is one of my last 2 beefs, especially considering I was promised a hard copy of it with my purchase. I was NOT told it wasn't even written yet. I've been trying to use the one in v5 under Help/Contents, but that's not very good at all.

Thank you to all, and yes, I also must say that v5 is everything I wanted it to be (so far).

And please, owners, consider your pricing. It is pretty high and I really do feel you're missing the boat here because the dollar is still king, and with your prices now so high people will look for other solutions. Do you remember when you were trying to make a name for yourselves and used a lower price to entice people to try it? Look at how much you've grown! How many loyal users you have. At $300 for an upgrade and new copy for $350, that doesn't send the message that you appreciate all of us loyal users much. You should've given us a break. And, with a $350 New User price tag, why would a new databaser go to Alpha5 over the standard and well known Access? You need to think about these things because they are all key in marketing and building your user base.

Good luck!

[Thontlb]

Re: Selwyn question

Documentation,

I can't deny that every question asked on the forum gets answered and most of those answering the difficult questions are likely surfing to see who they can help. Many contributors know A% inside & out.

I have purchased a 4 volume, 1,200 page manual for A5, Xbasic for everyone and Dr. Wayne's book, none of which gave me thorough real-life tutorials.

I've taught myself Excel and am way above the average VBA programmer as a result of readinf and following very methodical turorials printed by various sources.

One get's thier answer from the board whenever it shows up. Personallly I have to plod through issues until they are resolved to benefit or not lose interest.

No disrespect intended to Dr. Wayne or Selwyn, but all of the books combined have have come close to the help that one decent msAccess book gave me. I use both DBs and each have thier strengths. But realistically, Selwyn, saving a few bucks on documentation probably costs you more in lost sales or upgrades.

Terry Bryan

[MikeC]

Re: Selwyn question

Terry,
I read through this old thread completely until I came finally upon your post. I did so as this is how I personally have learned Alpha for the most part...by reading every post made on this messageboard basically since I joined Alpha. Truthfully I could have easily have done away with both the tutorials I did and instead spent that time on this messageboard as this is where I have truly learned the majority of what (little!! :) ) I know now. I learn, like most, from doing and not by reading--the messageboard has a TON of examples, samples, and, of course, many individuals who selflessly give of their time to explain them or give other advice. Most who have been here a while end up creating some sort of help file of their own--I am continuously adding to mine...especially about those things that I have not even ventured into yet (such as the "Web Side").

My main reason for answering your post is to ask you this.

What kind of book, documentation, course, etc. are you looking for?? IOW, basics, intermediate, advanced...? I doubt advanced or even intermediate at least in my case, once I started down the intermediate road, things really started to click....and also at the same time made me realize just how much more I could yet learn about Alpha! I can confidently figure out most problems now on my own via the messageboard posts or the expansive help file -- albeit the confidence mostly does come from the fact that if I do get stuck on something, I know there are those here who will help me figure out what is needed! :D

So if it is a basics type of help, which kind(s) would be the best do you think. I know personally, a hands-on course with interaction with an instructor would have been great, but the fee for doing that may be at too high a price. Maybe a video course going through an entire building of a very simple, yet comprehensive application (IOW covering most things but in a simplistic way if that is even possible!)??
....Alpha's attempt at this is AlphaSports with the ability to go behind the scenes to see the coding....but I have yet to do this myself as I found it very confusing when I first started with Alpha (that and there are some actually fairly involved/advanced scripting/concepts going on in some places) .

Again, just curious, as I have seen many such posts/threads but rarely are any specifics listed as to what would be the best way to do such a teaching....or at what level. I have, at times, thought of creating such a book, video, or course as I can still see many ways in which much time can be saved in regard to the learning curve for complete novices as it has not been too long since I was one that I can still remember how overwhelming it was. The time to do so could be a tremendous amount, however, and that is most likely the reason it has not been done by anyone here especially if the time spent would not be compensated in any substantial way.

[Thontlb]

Re: Selwyn question

I read many books re: access. Usually starting with the "Step by Step" series. Those particular books generally walk you through 2 or 3 "real world" applications from start to finish each adding more difficulty. As I learned more, I skipped the table building and just did the "meat" of the course. The Alpha books are either too simple or too "text-like" covering function after funtion with no excecises.

I have a rather short attention span and need defined strarting and stopping points.... I'd absorb about 2 hours of a 3 day course. Despite my limitations, I've taught mysel VB, VBA, Access, relational theory "Database Design for Mere Mortals" SQL and some Delphi. I built all of my own PC's until it became cheaper to buy off the shelf. I have plenty of aptitude. But Alpha has been the most difficult for me to learn (except Delphi which is very difficult so I didn't go far). I attribute it to the books where they use almost "jokingly" funny examples and don't build on them for a complete learning experience. The 1,200 page volume was more of a text book (helpful though) but offered little hands-on. Once xDialog came ito the mix, it was over for me. I spent a week learning it and it took ayway the time I neede to spend on alpha. Besides, Access has always had the ability to create unbound forms with modules of code attached....without having to learn another language.

But know I have a need for a web app so I'm willing to try again. I have three options. An alpha web page which smart phones can go to to get and pos information. Option 2, Syware mobile ehich would put the data on a web server and the forms on the device whcih would speed up rendering, or Visual Studio. Syware is a piece of cake, Studio and the net framework is overwhelming and with Alpha, I may get caught in the same trap of never completely learing enough. I've owned every version of Alpha, however each db app I've completed was in Access which comes very easy to me.

Alpha is a great App & I respect the hard-liners. I see many more people like me on the boards who cant get over the hump. MY only critiscsm of many of the Alpha hardliers is that they have never tried Access, but bash it anyway. (Microsoft is fun to bash). Filemaker truly sucks, but there's nothing Alpha can do that access can't do easier (for ME) except create a web page. I'm not saying that it's a better program, only that I could learn to use it fully in a few short months. I'v e had Alpha since Ver4 V2 to v8 windows. Yet I'm buying V9 to try the web capabilitiess anyway. MY hat is off to Swelen for the years of hard work (the sale and repurchase of Alpha) and for having to compete against companies with limitless resources. I'll probably buy V10 when it comes out also. I'm still waiting for the new browse.

[Schulzie]

Re: Selwyn question

22 Aug. 2002


Bradley,


If you have one a5 program that works well and is to only manage customers data, etc. can this not handled in the new a5 web server where your customers do not need a5? If the web server will allow the users to update and retrieve information without a5, then this application would become very cost effective to your reps.

Of course, the question is what is this web server from a5 going to cost and what are the features of it?

Just a thought.

JG
Houston, TX

[Schulzie]

Re: Selwyn question

Pseudo code &&

I believe that a course should be available that teaches pseudo code. In my opinion "if you start with the proper pseudo code that the available books will lead you to success.

Ed