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Thread: deleted record shows up in formview

  1. #1
    Jos Schaars
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    Default deleted record shows up in formview

    When the last physical record in deleted, it still shows up in form views.

    Open for example the AlphaSports database, close the menu and open the default form. Navigate to the last record, this should be #60 - James Mahoney and delete it.
    It will still be displayed, but OK, close the form and open the default browse. As you will notice record #60 isn't shown here, you can also verify that the record is indeed deleted with Databse - Information - Count Deleted Records or Customers - Systemmenu - Properties - Statistics.
    Now reopen the default from and see what happens when you navigate to the last record.

    At least in my case, record #60 is still shown and I can even edit, print, delete it....
    I have mentioned this in a previous thread, but got no reply on this, perhaps it didn't stick out enough.
    I get somewhat annoyed by this last record ghost. When testing froms, I frequently add and then remove those same records again. Testing default mode rules based on previous values and simple expressions with previous values requires me to pack the table each time.

    Can anyone confirm this same problem"

  2. #2
    julian lewis
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    Jos:

    I'm somewhat new to Alpha. But, I think I read where Alpha always creates a last "Blank" record on the databases. Like you, I've noticed that when I delete all records, the last one still stands.

    Have you noticed that when you start adding more records, that the record goes away?

    I've never really check myself yet.

    Good Luck,
    JC

  3. #3
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    I could be wrong but I believe what you are seeing is the buffer:

    When a table is open, there is always one record that can be called the current record. This record is the record upon which the next set of field operations will be applied. A temporary record buffer holds the data from the current record. When a record is entered or changed, the new data values are entered through this buffer.

    Internally, the physical location of the current record is referenced through the current record pointer. Every instance of an open table has its own record pointer. If the same table is opened twice (with two different object pointers), there will be two independently controlled record pointers.

    As Alpha Five processes a table, it moves from one record to the next, advancing the current record pointer. Each time the current record is changed, the field values for the new current record are retrieved, or fetched, from the table file. This process of moving the record pointer and retrieving the current record is known as fetching through the table.


  4. #4
    "Certified" Alphaholic
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    Jos,

    I don't have V6 installed on this machine.

    However, I do NOT see the same behavior using A5V5 or A5V4.

    -- tom

  5. #5
    Jos Schaars
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    Julian,

    I'm also new to A5 and glad you can confirm this problem.
    Also noticed that adding a new record corrects it. But then again the last record isn't deleted anymore. And why is this mishap in form views, not in browse views?

    With one or more undeleted records, you would exspect the last (undeleted) record to be used as previous and the last (deleted) not to be used/shown.

    Jos

  6. #6
    Jos Schaars
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    Cheryk,

    I'm aware of the concept of buffer/current record.

    Have you tried the example? Delete that record. Close, if you want, the AlphaSport database or even A5V6 itself and reopen it. Open the default browse amd navigate to the last record, close it and do the same with the default form view and teconsider your argumentations.

    Jos

  7. #7
    Jos Schaars
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    Hi Tom,

    You have to try A%V6 (and probably be surprised)

    Jos

  8. #8
    Alpha Software Employee AaronBBrown's Avatar
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    Aaron Brown
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    I am unable to reproduce this problem. Is this true of any database? Can you actually reproduce it in AlphaSports or were you just using it as an example?

    What regional settings are you using?

  9. #9
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    Hi Jos,

    I just followed your example and do see what you are saying. In order for the record to NOT appear in your default form you need to 'pack' the table.

    I was trying to find the docs that referenced this but was unable to locate it quickly for you. Delete marks the records but does not actually remove them permanently.

    I cannot explain why they will show up in the default form view ... this is probably a bug with V6 as it does not show in V5 even if I do not pack the table.

    I did duplicate your issue and believe it should not be this way :)

    Cheryl

  10. #10
    Jos Schaars
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    Aaron,

    Yes this is true for ANY database, I used AlphaSport just as an example so I didn't have to supply a database of myself and get none-related responses.

    Jos

  11. #11
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    Hi Aaron,

    I duplicated the reported issue using the exact steps in the original post. This happens with any database, not just AlphaSports. I opened the database attached to a post here by Gary Luca, opened the default form on his first table, went to the last record, deleted the record. Closing and re-opening the form and navigating to the last record it is still there, but does not appear in the default browse. If I pack the table after my delete this does remove it from the default browse.

    I follow the same steps in V5 and it does not behave this way. After deleting the last record using a default browse, it goes away and does not show when re-opening even without packing the table.

    Cheryl

    I tested this on my laptop XP Home O/S

    I am not sure which settings you need, but all settings I have are the ones that default with V6 as I have not made any changes to them.

  12. #12
    Alpha Software Employee AaronBBrown's Avatar
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    Aaron Brown
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    I still cannot reproduce it.

    Here are the steps *I* took:

    1. Open AlphaSports
    2. Close the main menu
    3. Right click on the "Customer" table and choose "Open Default Form"
    4. Press CTRL-END to navigate to the last record

    At this point, I'm on "Steven Wendell"

    5. Press CTRL-D to delete the current record
    6. Select "Yes" to confirm deletion

    At this point, I am automatically navigated to the *first* record in the table

    7. Close the form
    8. Open the default form again per step 3
    9. Navigate to the last record with CTRL-END

    At this point, I am on "John Baker" which is correct.

    Am I missing something?

  13. #13
    Alpha Software Employee Lenny Forziati's Avatar
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    Like Aaron, I cannot duplicate this either. My last record was initially James Mahoney, I dleted him, was brought to the first record int he table and my last record was 59, not 60

    -Lenny

  14. #14
    Jos Schaars
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    Aaron,

    It's all about the LAST PHYSICAL record, probably you're using a different index. Navigate to record #60 = James Mahoney and delete that one.

    Jos

  15. #15
    Alpha Software Employee Lenny Forziati's Avatar
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    Jos, I was able to delete the last physical record without any problem

    -Lenny

  16. #16
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    WOW, dejavous ..... this brings back sooooooo many memories Lenny ****winks**** one of these days I will get an error that you can duplicate without major headaches along the way :)

    I am going to go test on my 2000 server, bbiaf

  17. #17
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    I just deleted record 59 in V5 ... 60 was already gone, LOL ... it goes away as it should and brings me to record 58 (not the 1st record in the table)

    I am booting my 2000 server to test in V6 on that machine to see if I can duplicate it there.

  18. #18
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    I just duplicated this on my 2000 server as well. The only difference this time was the data showing in the form was in fact from the 1st record, however, the record number and custID still showed as 60.

  19. #19
    Alpha Software Employee AaronBBrown's Avatar
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    I navigated to record #61 (the last record in my table) and deleted it. 60 records remain.

  20. #20
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    Hmmmm, Jos has duplicated the error. I duplicated it on xp and 2000 machines. You and Lenny are unable to duplicate it. What other information can we provide you in order to help you duplicate the error?

    For me, I am navigating to the last record using the toolbar button. I did try it your way as well with the ctrl+end but I still had the same problem. The record still 'shows' in the default browse form even though in reality it has been deleted.

  21. #21
    Jos Schaars
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    Aaron,

    Perhaps you have to revert to the original table with only 60 record?
    You deleted record #61 ??

    Jos

  22. #22
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    Martin W. Cole
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    I have in all versions of Alpha had problems when deleting, entering, and/or editing especially the last record and sometimes the first record. However, for those of you who are deleting the record, how are you doing it? with Ctrl-D or a button with an xbasic script, or action scripting script?

  23. #23
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    I just duplicated this on a 3rd machine, laptop also with xp home.

    Open alphasports
    exit
    right click customer table
    select default browse
    using the arrow toolbar at top ... selected last record
    ctrl+d to delete record
    YES on pop up dialog to confirm delete
    Record stays in form ...
    Close form
    Re-open form, navigate again to last record
    record 60 still there
    close form
    open default browse, record not there
    pack table
    open default form
    record 60 is gone

  24. #24
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    gmta .... follow my steps just posted Martin (please) in V6 and in V5 ... V6 is the problem, V5 the record goes away in the default form

  25. #25
    "Certified" Alphaholic
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    Aaron and everyone,

    I opened the customer table in the default form, made sure I was in record number order, went to the last record, pressed delete (either the menu item or ctrl-d) and clicked yes in the confirmation dialog.

    The record did not delete. That is,
    -it did not disappear;
    -focus did not shift to a different record;
    -closing and reopening the form (and Alpha5) made no difference.

    XP pro, 1 gig ram, nothing else running in the background, 1532.2003.

    Bill

  26. #26
    "Certified" Alphaholic
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    I can verify Cheryl's observation that the deleted record is not visible in the default browse (though it remains visible in the form). Furthermore, I also observe that packing the table stops the record from showing in the form which should come as no surprise.

    I also saw some instability of display order in the default browse (with record number order active) until I packed the table after which the browse sorted correctly.

    I think something is going on here.

    Bill

  27. #27
    julian lewis
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    Bill:

    I've been somewhat following this, are you all saying that one record remains after you "delete all records" which is what I have experienced using v6 or just that you can't delete the "last record"

    Thanks
    JC

  28. #28
    Jos Schaars
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    Default RE: deleted record shows up in formview

    The issue is that when the last physical record is deleted, this record is still shown in form views (index record number - last record).
    In your case, this of course also applies. Look at the table using a browse view and you probably see no records.
    Also the statistics will account for 0 records.

    Jos

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