Pricing

[Cheryl Lemire]

RE: Pricing

You can create and view WAS applications on the local machine where you have your full version 6 program without a license.

The license is needed in order for anybody else to view the pages from a location other than the host server, ie a network (intranet) or internet.

[Mike Konoff]

RE: Pricing

I have DSL at home and at work. Would it be possible to somehow access my work PC via the dsl connection from home? and use software on my work PC as if I were seated in front of it?

I have seen things such as VPN's. I have also seen software called PC-Anywhere. Would either of these allow one user to access his PC at work from home? If it is possible, then you would not neccesarily need WAS. I have no clue as to the speed issue or how to set this up. Just thinking aloud.

Also, if you needed multiple simutaneous users, wouldn't you be able to purchase a second or third license for V6 and allow PC-Anywhere access like in the above scenario.

Any thoughts?
Mike

[Melvin Davidson]

RE: Pricing

Mike,

I use PC-Anywhere to support my remote clients.

It allows you to directly connect to any pc and use it as if you were right in front of it. Positive side -" It works 100% Drawbacks -" A bit slow and pricey. Legally, you need to have a copy on each PC using it. $175 each.

[Cheryl Lemire]

RE: Pricing

Hi Mike,

You are speaking of remote access to a specific computer which really is a different animal than WAS. There are many programs available for remote access with varying costs and pros/cons.

If all you are trying to do is access a database directly on a computer as if you were there, then yes you can use a remote access program to do that. With this you will be accessing your db forms/reports directly in A5.

WAS can be used for a multitude of tasks. You are using browser enabled forms and reports VS Alpha Five forms/reports. WAS also offers the ability to create catalog pages, etc and many many many other browser enabled forms/reports that you would want to give access to the public without giving them direct access to your computer. I think there is a big difference here.

Bottom line is, what is the end result needed and what is it worth to you or the client in time, convenience, security, and money.

[Robert Picard]

RE: Pricing

Hi Melvin

You might want to check out TightVNC.

http://www.tightvnc.com/

It open source software and perferms well.

Robert

[Mike Konoff]

RE: Pricing

Hi Cheryl,

My comments/questions arose from reading message id 1069 from bobby oneil. he indicated that he was a very small business and was interested in accessing his data over the net. I was just trying to think aloud to find a solution for him.

Thanks,
Mike

[Cheryl Lemire]

RE: Pricing

Hi Mike,

Your solution for a small business that simply wants remote access without the other features of the Internet access is a viable solution. I just wanted to clarify the differences between remote access and a web server application.

Somebody else had posted here about tightvnc ... I personally use RealVNC for remote access and it works beautifully for all of my needs.

http://realvnc.com/

Thanks
Cheryl

[Mike Konoff]

RE: Pricing

Hey Cheryl,

Thanks for the info and link on realvnc. I'll check it out. Hopefully it will give the other guy an option that is more cost effective for his situation.

have a good day,
Mike

[Doug Page]

RE: Pricing

Marcel,

I have followed the discussions about v6 for a long time and would like to point out how I see WAS in hopes that it might help clarify things for some.

WAS is NOT Alpha 5 - it is a totally separte piece of software that is a "web server". Albeit, a very special web server that not only can deal with standard HTML pages but also "special" pages that have Alpha code attached that will "create" very sophisticated web pages on the fly. The closest comparison so far in this thread is when Lenny discussed ColdFusion as it is quite identical and substantially easier and cheaper to implement.

I think that many might understand it better if it was discussed as the WAS RUNTIME, a very special runtime that allows an unlimited number of users to connect to it via the internet or an intranet. None of the other runtimes are needed. If you think of it this way, then it is an extremely inexpensive version of the unlimited runtime with the difference being that is accessed through a browser rather than running a program directly. The code runs on the server now not the client which could be very important to many people as well. It is quite important to many small businesses who can not afford to keep upgrading all the machines around the office as new versions of software come out requiring more up to date machines. Just upgrade the server as the other machines only need to run a browser.

How many people here actually host their own website? If it has any complexity to it, then I would assume very few. This is exactly the same as running an "A5 data server" (my name). If you do run your own site, you know the complexities of keeping it up and running and all the associated costs such as redundency, Raid systems, security, etc. From the very beginning discussions, I can recall statements being made that ISP's could purchase WAS and install it on their system and offer web hosting services that would allow you to run your a5w web pages. This is done by many ISP's now for ASP, PHP, ColdFusion, etc. Alpha a5w pages are really no different and from what I can recall were never said to be any different. WAS is licensed "per server" not per client. This is why Lenny said that it does not matter who buys it. Your clients do not need a license to use WAS. Only the company/person who runs WAS on their web server must license it. Your clients only need to buy their own license if they are going to run their own A5 web server. Anyone can use it. Many different programs can run on it. It needs to be licensed only by the person who is offering the web hosting service. So, in essence, WAS is exactly like the runtime model except that there is only one version - unlimited. Unlike the runtime model, however, you do not need to be the one who purchases it. There are probably numerous technical reasons as to why Alpha would only make the one version (unlimited) but a couple come quickly to mind. Overall lower price for unlimited accessability; only one product to support; amount of code that would be necessary to try and track a user in the web world which is much more complex than tracking a user on a file server; not wanting users to see alot of error pages saying that there are too many users connected; the delays created by the code doing a user count check (and these delays could be several for EACH web page depending on how that page is created); most people, including supposedly computer smart people, have enough security problems with a simple email clients - can you imagine the security risks of uneducated people
running "unprotected" web servers because they can buy an inexpensive 3 user version of WAS.

You need to have an understanding of the above to know how it can then be taken advantage of.

So what are your options:

1)Hopefully Alpha will be announcing ISP alliances as I believe that Richard had discussed this a long time ago (but don't hold me to that as my memory is just not quite as sharp as it used to be). People understand that connecting to the internet has costs associated with it and this is a service to be offered. Millions of people have access to free web server software but still pay someone else to provide this service. Especially if it saves you from having to buy a license for some expensive piece of software like SQL Server, Oracle, Cold Fusion, etc. Isn't it better for most people/companies to let the web server "geeks" deal with all the headaches and purchase all the software and just let me have access to it for $10-15 per month.

2)Do you have an application that you have sold many copies of and want these people to have special services available via the internet? This begs for someone to make a little money. You could buy WAS, you could provide the gateway for your customers and they never have to know who wrote what or where it came from. If your customers do not require severe bandwidth, then build a simple box yourself and offer the service at a small fee. It's no different than you buying the Unlimited Runtime and giving that away with your software. The cost still has to be factored in. Since it will require you to rewrite your application to take advantage of WAS, you could offer two versions with the web enabled version costing a slightly higher price and you could offer the gateway to those clients for free as long as their throughput was modest.

3)Create an alliance with a small hosting service in your area that will host WAS for you and your clients. Perhaps they will even give you referrals for business. You develop and they enlarge their hosting service.

I know that there are many brighter "heads" in the A5 community that can come up with many other ideas. But hopefully, this gives you a better idea of how WAS can be used and the licensing around it. Let's consider a standard 3 user runtime at $499 or an unlimited user WAS runtime at $699. Pretty darned good value if you ask me. I think a price like the $699 even got bantered around in the message board after the Alpha Conference. So the price doesn't surprise me.

Now for the comments of the A5v6 developer edition and why Alpha is saying that you can develop web applications. v6 has all the tools that one will ever need to develop web enabled applications. They even provide a special version of WAS that runs locally so that it may all be tested before uploading it to a web accessable location (for a lot of development languages, this alone can be an expensive option). WAS is and always was described as being a piece of software that runs on a web server and has all the associated headaches that go along with that service. A5v6 is and always has been described as a development tool to create database programs both locally and for the internet. Nothing more, nothing less.

As there always seems to be when new software is under development and user discussions start up, misunderstandings can be made. For what it is worth, I have for a long time had the understanding that WAS was to be a separate piece of software and that there would be a cost involved. Having seen the costs of comparable software the price of $699 is surprisingly low. I also understood A5v6 to be the development tool that allowed me to write stand alone database application in conjunction with the runtimes. v6 was to add to it the development tools to allow me to code applications for the 'net, if I so chose, and to do this in conjunction with a different runtime called WAS. I also had the understanding that unlike the standard runtimes which I HAD to purchase, I did not necessarily need to purchase WAS as I have the option of going to someone who has purchased it and will host my applicaation on their server.

That is how I understand the whole WAS model and am pretty sure that it is correct although I have had no discussions with anybody about it. If it is not correct, then please somebody let me know. But as I understand it, I will never have to purchase WAS as long as I am willing to have somebody host my site for a modest monthly charge.

Doug Page

[glenschild]

RE: Pricing

Mike

Another option (as recommended by the boys at Alpha a while back) is GoToMyPC. I use this to remote access clients desktop when needed. It does cost money but in my experience it is much quicker than a vpn even if the other machine is using a dialup connection!

Can be checked out at www.gotomypc.com

Regards

Glen

[martinwcole]

RE: Pricing

PCAnywhere is less expensive and has many more features. And if your client has a VPN, you can simultaneous connect to multiple workstations to test app's networking on their system.

[Eric Nijman]

RE: Pricing

Or Ultra VNC wich supports file transfers and lets you chat with the person behind the remote computer.