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Thread: Pricing

  1. #1
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    Default Pricing

    I have an app which I sell. My users do not have Alpha5 so part of my app is a runtime vesion of Alpha5.

    A few clients have asked for the ability to "access" their data on their FS via the Net. Examples: salesman on the road to look up PO's or teachers/profs to enter a NEW repair work order request.

    What would I have to purchase from Alpha5 to do this? I have already upgraded from version5.0 to 6.0 Development.

    What would EACH client have to buy if they want to use the NET capability that I will be programming in, in the near future? So that they can upgrade their data within their own building/factory.

    I find the price structure confusing and maybe someone will give me a more clear idea of what I need to purchase and what a client might need to buy.

    Big thanks.

  2. #2
    Alpha Software Employee Lenny Forziati's Avatar
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    Default RE: Pricing

    If you want to continue to privide a desktop app to your customers, you will need the runtime, just like you do in V5.

    If you would like to additionally provide web access, each customer's file server that is to also become a web server must have an unlimited Web Application Server license.

    -Lenny

  3. #3
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    Default RE: Pricing

    So each of my clients who wud like to take advantage of Web data entry would need to buy the Web Server unlimited from Alpha 5 directly.

  4. #4
    Alpha Software Employee Lenny Forziati's Avatar
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    Default RE: Pricing

    They would need to buy it and ultimately it would have to come from us. But that doesn't mean you couldn't act as a reseller or roll the license fee into your project price.

    -Lenny

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    Default RE: Pricing

    Hi Lenny,

    So that strategy ends the possibilities of us developers to deliver solutions totaly independend of Alpha Software.

    Our customer needs to purchase a license for the WAS from you.

    I do not think that is a wise solution at all.

    First of all my customers are not even aware of Alpha being used for their product. In my opinion, they don't need to be either.
    I future, for web applications, every customer MUST order the WAS from you.

    It does not only limits our possibilities, it also raises the price of any web solution we might deliver with $699 per license! So goodbye to any low-priced websolution involved software !

    I think the WAS should be implemented into the license structure just like the Runtime.

    Why did you choose this unholy idea ?

    Greetings,

    Marcel

  6. #6
    VAR Dan Blank's Avatar
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    Default RE: Pricing

    Hi,

    I think there may be some confusion over this. Let me state what I believe is the way the License issue works and if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will correct me.

    I am a developer. I get Client A. I write a web app for him, purchase a web server license. Now Client A's web site is up for all the world to access.

    Then along comes Client B. I write an app for Client B, and will need a new web server license for for his app. Then Client B's web site is up for all of the world to visit.

    If I get Client C then again I would need to obtain another web license.

    That's my interpretation of the license.

    Thanks,

    Dan

  7. #7
    Alpha Software Employee Lenny Forziati's Avatar
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    Default RE: Pricing

    Marcel, as I mentioned above, you can become a reseller and your customer would notneed to buy directly from us. There is also the option of their app being hosted at an ISP or other provider, in which case their server does not need a license.

    -Lenny

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    Default RE: Pricing

    Hi Lenny,

    Swift reaction, thanks !

    Well, that might be true, but the license agreement is between Alpha and my client, so I would at least have to inform my client about that. Why does my client have to be involved in this ?

    Furthermore, when I want to create a product designed for the greater public to use with webfunctionality, and I would like to sell it for let us say $49 I would have to add $699 to the pricetab........

    Question remains: why did you not choose for the solution similar to the Runtime (which works great!) ?

    Don't you see it limits our possibilities thus your sales chances ?

    Or do I not see it clearly ?

    Regards,

    Marcel

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    Default RE: Pricing

    Dan,

    I think you are wrong.
    It is not you who needs to buy the WAS license, but your client.

    Although it can be done through you as a reseller, it will still be your client who has a licenseagreement with Alpha as I understand it.

    The license for the WAS will be on your clients name and not on your name.

    Kind regards,

    Marcel

  10. #10
    Alpha Software Employee Lenny Forziati's Avatar
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    Default RE: Pricing

    We don't care who buys the license. You just need to have one for the server you are hosting from.

  11. #11
    Alpha Software Employee Lenny Forziati's Avatar
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    Default RE: Pricing

    Marcel, if you choose to build a $49 web app in Cold Fusion, what does your client need?

  12. #12
    "Certified" Alphaholic DaveM's Avatar
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    Default RE: Pricing

    Marcell,

    Whether we like it or not, atleast it is spelled out and it is up to us whether we choose to use it.

    There, I did not insert a negative!!! Thoughts don't count.

    Dave

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    Default RE: Pricing

    Lenny,

    I did not see it that way.

    I just compared it with the structure we have now, and find this a disturbing change in things.

    You will be right, but it does not change the pricetab for my client, neither the fact that my client would have to be involved in the license structure with Alpha, which is not an optimal situation either.

    Pitty.

    Regards,

    Marcel

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    Default RE: Pricing

    Lenny,

    That is a little indifferent and incorrect as well, as there are legal issues involved here regarding license agreements rights and obligations.

    Kind regards,

    Marcel

  15. #15
    VAR Dan Blank's Avatar
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    Default RE: Pricing

    Hi Lenny,

    One thing I am not too clear on is different apps on the same server. If I write one app and put it on a server, then write another app for the same server...Will I need to get another license?

    Just thinking this may be a partial solution where developers can also expand into web hosting partnerships.

    Thanks,

    Dan

  16. #16
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    Default RE: Pricing

    And to any Canadian customers, the Web Server app will cost Can$932.

    So if I want to add a WEB feature to our presen app that means our price would have to increase from Can$3,150 to over $4,000 or 29.5%.

    That is a hit so we will have to tread carefully.

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    Default RE: Pricing

    Hi D. Chiasson,

    I did not get your last sentence. What do you mean by it ?
    Sorry, not an English native speaker......

    When I could live with is a structure where you would get somehow limited rights and then put the price for the WAS in the productpackage price like the Runtime or even put it IN the runtime.

    Then you could also have a separate product with full rights for the full price to be sold separately.

    I do not even know if this is possible, but it is an idea.

    Your product is priced at $3.150. What would happen if your product were priced at € 450 ??
    You just could not offer webbased functionality because it would outprice your solution!

    I am still stunned by this. I must not see it clearly.
    I will read the thread two times more to be sure.

    Regards,

    Marcel

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    Default RE: Pricing

    Hi Dan,

    That is good thinking !
    Although it is a pitty that this even has to be considered.

    Greetings,

    Marcel

  19. #19
    Van Jones
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    Default RE: Pricing

    Looking at WAS from a perspective of a medium to large company that will be running several database apps in which the WAS server could become a cornerstone of the department, I can justify the price of the server license.

    But, I also have concerns about having to charge a customer $748 for for $49 app. When I first heard about web functionality in Alpha v6, I thought 'Great!'. I can provide low cost applications to churches that don't require client installations, which should reduce future troubleshooting. So if I wanted to market an app that can be accessed through a browser to churches for $299, I now have to charge $999 for this application of which I only receive $299. It is because of this type of situation that we need a (much cheaper) WAS license that would only let us run 1 or 2 apps at a time through the server. For example, if the server is only going to run 1 app, then charge $99 for the WAS license...2 apps $199....

    The challenge is 'How do you regulate this?'. I don't know, but I think there needs to be a consideration for situations like I mentioned above.

  20. #20
    "Certified" Alphaholic DaveM's Avatar
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    Default RE: Pricing

    I am being told that MySQL is very expensive(not my words) and makes me wonder if Alpha is kindof following along the same price structuring paths as MySQL. Alpha seems to put some store in that product? It seems MySql is somewhat inexpensive for one user but goes up rapidly where other providers do not go up so much with repeat users?

    Someone help me here. This is more of a wonderment and asking than saying. Is this true?

    I do believe that for my present needs, my isp provider will do just fine. Hopefully in the very near future, I will have a need large enough to warrant the web server.

    Dave

  21. #21
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    Default RE: Pricing

    Another way to look at this is the customer pays $600 for the WAS, and saves a lot more in programming time since you can create the app a lot faster. I don't know what you all charge per hour but $600 isn't a lot of hours.
    Also, I think Alpha needs sufficient return on their investment to keep developing and growing. If they don't have the revenue to keep making new apps you probably won't be too happy either. Maybe this isn't the app if you want a $49 internet program. IIS if free, you can use that if the savings in time aren't worth $550.

    Russ

  22. #22
    Alpha Software Employee Lenny Forziati's Avatar
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    Default RE: Pricing

    Dave, a MySQL Pro license is $500, regardless of the number of users. Depending on your use, you may not even need to purchase a license. Considering it has probably 95% of the capability of Oracle but costs about 5% of the price, I would certainly not call MySQL expensive.

    -Lenny

  23. #23
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    Default RE: Pricing

    Is this correct: if you are going to sell an app for 49.00, (and if so you would anticipate selling a BUNCH of them,) then you would host the app yourself - i.e., you put the app on a server (your own or rented space,) buy one license, and then let anyone with a secret password, etc., use it.

    If that is correct, then an unlimited number of permitted users could use it, and the 699 (or whatever,) is only expended once. But you would need to sell a bunch to cover the cost.

    If that is correct, then Dan's question becomes relevant. If you had a server (or rented space,) capable of handling multiple apps and a lot of hits, (say you have three different 49.00 apps,) but that all run off the same server, would you need three licenses, or would one license handle all three - like runtime is only limited to the users per app, not the total number of users using runtime.

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    Default RE: Pricing

    Hi Guys,

    Of course it could be possible to deploy a webserver yourself and have your customers run their low-priced apps on it (if the WAS license agreement allows this).
    But that again means that you limit the freedom of the customer.

    It would mean "you can buy my $49 (or whatever low price) product, but you need to run it on MY server.
    It ain't optimal either.

    No, I think the solution would be in the edge of where there is a simple WAS license packed with the Runtime.
    So the Runtime would include simple WAS functionality to run 1 application.

    Then you could also have a stand-alone WAS with full functionlity and full price.

    IF I would like to implement web-capability in a low priced product, I could not do it now.
    My product priced ad $49 would have to go through a price raise of 1526 % !!

    Greetings,

    Marcel

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    Default RE: Pricing

    Sorry, forgot the other issue:

    My customer would have to register the WAS license to his name.
    Lenny says "we don't care who buys it, as long as you have a license for every server you deploy" but that is too simple of course.
    Legal issues are involved here.
    When I would buy 100 WAS licenses and resell them to my customers without Alpha knowing who they were, they would not agree to that would they.
    So my customer needs to get the license, and in best case scenario I could act as reseller, but that still needs my client to be involved in the process.

    When I buy a car, why should I bother to know the brand of the robot with which the car was created in the factory ?
    Why does my client have to know Alpha was used in the first place, and in the second place have to get a license for the WAS NEXT to a license for my product ?
    That is not a workable solution for low priced products that are sold off-shelf in stores like mine now.
    It is a no-go.

    Regards,

    Marcel

  26. #26
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    Default RE: Pricing

    Marcel,

    I sell cars! GM cars! if you purchase a car from me, you have to know it came from GM because of warranty purposes and I am DAMN sure not going to let you forget me. That is why I use my Alpha CRM so dilligently.

    I think I am getting to see what they are saying. I may not agree, but see it.

    Why can we not deploy it in our name with alpha on clients server and get paid for the whole process and never let them have a problem like isps today do it. We also have control of the apps too.

    Dave

  27. #27
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    Default RE: Pricing

    This issue is definitly a big problem for developers. The cost of their applications will increase a lot, minimizing the number of small clients that they can sell their apps.
    It is my beleive that the way the licensing is done for V6 and WAS must be changed. I don't know the answer to this issue, but I sure hope that Richard is looking into it. I was going to buy the WAS and V6, but now after understanding the way licensing works, I noticed that 60% of my clients (Small churches, non-profits, small businesses)the price of my application is out of their budgets. I used to sell a V5 application for about $500, but now if I use WAS my application will double if I want to still make the same profit. Most of them got very excited when I told them that soon they can have a web application for about the same price. Now I have to break the news.

    The Mexican

  28. #28
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    Default RE: Pricing

    A comparison would be to buy a new car with a 150 HP engine but there is an option for a person to buy a 300 HP engine at an extra charge.

    To "someone" who wants the bigger engine or Web functionality then it is EXPECTED that the buyer of the car or software will have to pay more.

    It is a customers choice whether they want WEB capability or not. They want more horsepower than they will need to pay more.

    I totally agree that Alpha5 needs to make a reasonable return on their time, $ and risk to stay in business.

    Based on past history, Richard & the Group have always offered an EXCELLENT BANG for the buck. I expect that to continue.

    We will be offering WEB capability in our application but as an OPTION so we don't price ourselves out of the market viz "smaller" potential users.

    Just my "3 cents" acounting for exchange rate.

  29. #29
    "Certified" Alphaholic DaveM's Avatar
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    Default RE: Pricing

    I am going to purchase my v6 within the first 90 days as i normally have with other versions and will look at the other when my Current obligations begin to expire. If at that time Alpha is only "reasonably" higher, then I will choose alpha. My heart is there!

    Dave

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    Default RE: Pricing

    Hi Dave !

    Regarding your example of the cars you sell:

    Suppose I bought a splendid GM car from you.....
    Would I need to agree on a license with every supplier of every part of your car ?
    Would I need a license for the engine ? The tires from Goodyear? the door-handles ?

    See my point ?

    Marcel

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