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Thread: Could I Build a home page with Alpha?

  1. #1
    Member Rayr's Avatar
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    Default Could I Build a home page with Alpha?

    Hi all,

    I need to build a home page for my web site and I would like to know if I could
    do this with Alpha or should I purchase something like macromedia or Microsoft FrontPage to make the htm page?
    Kind Regards,
    Ray Roosa
    Raylin Micro, LLC.

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    Default

    You can certainly build a home page with the tools available with Alpha 5; however is you are looking at building a lot of pages without database content, you may want to look at other options that are expressly devoted to building other web content.

    Perhaps others may have more knowledge, but I might suggest that you stay away from Front Page, as some of the features used by this program use special features and require a that Front Page Extensions be added to the server. I have not heard of anyone using the web server with Front Page.

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    Former Alpha Employee Edward Larrabee's Avatar
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    Default

    The Alpha Five HTML Editor is good for integrating components and Xbasic with HTML. However, it does not have all the productivity features of other products.

    My experience with Front Page was that it was a pain. I personally like TextPad for situations where I am writing straight code and DreamWeaver for situations where I want a WYSIWYG preview.

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    Thank you Ed and John,

    I am looking at DreamWeaver and FrontPage, from what I heard from others also is I should stay clear of FrontPage but at the same time DreamWeaver has a long learning curve.

    I downloaded DreamWeaver last night so I will see what happens.
    Kind Regards,
    Ray Roosa
    Raylin Micro, LLC.

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    Default Option Contribute 3.1

    Certainly Dreamweaver is one of the flagships for the power user. As an option, you might want to look at Contribute 3.1 from Macromedia, which cost less, is compatible with Dreamweaver and has a much shorter learning curve. A trial version is also available for this product and if you later become a power user, the move to Dreamweaver is less difficult.

    A quick search for web design software will also produce any number of hits. I have seen some interesting products mentioned in other threads on this board. So its pretty much what do you want to do and how much you want to spend.

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    Member Rayr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Hertzler
    Certainly Dreamweaver is one of the flagships for the power user. As an option, you might want to look at Contribute 3.1 from Macromedia, which cost less, is compatible with Dreamweaver and has a much shorter learning curve. A trial version is also available for this product and if you later become a power user, the move to Dreamweaver is less difficult.

    A quick search for web design software will also produce any number of hits. I have seen some interesting products mentioned in other threads on this board. So its pretty much what do you want to do and how much you want to spend.
    thank you John
    Kind Regards,
    Ray Roosa
    Raylin Micro, LLC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayr
    Thank you Ed and John,

    I am looking at DreamWeaver and FrontPage, from what I heard from others also is I should stay clear of FrontPage but at the same time DreamWeaver has a long learning curve.

    I downloaded DreamWeaver last night so I will see what happens.
    Try http://www.coffeecup.com/ - amazing tools and you can try before you buy, hardly no learning curve to climb!!!

    Regards
    Andy

  8. #8
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    Default Interesting

    Perhaps others may have more knowledge, but I might suggest that you stay away from Front Page, as some of the features used by this program use special features and require a that Front Page Extensions be added to the server. I have not heard of anyone using the web server with Front Page.

    Interesting coming from an Alpha5 forum given that Alpha5 not only has to use Xbasic to access special features but also requires an independent proprietary server. Next to that I don't think FrontPage forces much on the user. I use FrontPage and believe me compared with the other packages out there you are not going to get a more RAD web development platform with the easy of use, even without using the FP extensions. Also many ISP and commercial servers support the FP extensions so don't let that scare you.

    C
    Last edited by AaronBBrown; 10-20-2005 at 04:04 PM.

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    Member Rayr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andycaps
    Try http://www.coffeecup.com/ - amazing tools and you can try before you buy, hardly no learning curve to climb!!!

    Regards
    Andy
    Andy,

    Have you tried any of the others out their like Dreamweaver or FrontPage?

    Thanks for the link, I will take a look at that.
    Kind Regards,
    Ray Roosa
    Raylin Micro, LLC.

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    Member Rayr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hansolo
    Interesting coming from an Alpha5 forum given that Alpha5 not only has to use Xbasic to access special features but also requires an independent proprietary server. Next to that I don't think FrontPage forces much on the user. I use FrontPage and believe me compared with the other packages out there you are not going to get a more RAD web development platform with the easy of use, even without using the FP extensions. Also many ISP and commercial servers support the FP extensions so don't let that scare you.

    C
    C,

    Do you have a link to a web site you created with FrontPage that I can look at?
    Kind Regards,
    Ray Roosa
    Raylin Micro, LLC.

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    I have used Frontage for 5 years now to build my own sites and never had a problem. Almost all web hosting companies have the Frontpage extensions so it is not a big deal anymore. You cannot beat it for putting a site together quickly, plus there are some great templates you can buy to get a jump start.

    If you build web sites for a living it may not be the best tool but for you own work it will do just fine. Dreamweaver is no doubt a great tool and I have tried it many times but never had the time it would take to be actually get anything done. Also if you want to use the Coldfusion part of Dreamweaver for database stuff, it will require that the server supports Coldfusion so it is not much different than Frontpage in that regard.

    Dismissing Frontpage for building a website because of its extensions is like dismissing the Alpha Web builder for building database web sites because it requires the WAS server.

    Here is a link to a product specific site of mine built with Frontpage. It is simple, clean and fast, no fancy graphics. www.quickestimator.com

    Regards
    Dermot Fitzpatrick
    www.fitzsolutions.com

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    Default Compatibility of Front Page and the Alpha Web Server

    I used FrontPage for a number of years and would not dispute anything that Dermot Fitzpatrick says about the program. Once can easily paint forms with text boxes, radio or drop boxes that can be easily set to send email to selected person(s) or accumulated into poor man’s date base by forming a comma delimited txt file that can be imported for processing by a data base or spread sheet. Scrolling Banners, Counters and Graphic Features are also only a few clicks away but many features are based on proprietary features.

    If you are looking for a fairly powerful program to manage a web site but do not want to invest a lot of time in learning to code with html, FrontPage is definitely worth a look. However, if you are looking for something that integrates or plays well with the Alpha Web Server I would be reluctant to recommend using FrontPage unless someone here says that they have successfully integrated the two.

    Much of my experience with FrontPage is with the last generation but there are two problems that I would have concern about.
    • Articles I have read on FrontPage state that it leaves artifacts on editing and does not provide clean html. While I never had problems, I pretty much stuck to editing in FrontPage. I understand that the newest edition has cleaned some of the coding issues up. Still, I would question how well the html would be interpreted by the Alpha Web Server.
    • Chuck Tanner states many ISP and commercial servers support the FP extensions so don't let that scare you. While this is true, I have not seen any of the commercial sites offering the Alpha Web Server service, touting that they can offer FrontPage Extensions. Perhaps they could correct me if I am wrong. Or has anyone running their own site successfully integrated the Extensions?
    The thing to keep in mind is that FrontPage is a hybrid between an html coding program and a proprietary system. If someone can affirm that the above are not issues, I might go back to Front Page; otherwise, I would look elsewhere. As stated above, if you do not want the learning curve of Dreamweaver, Contribute may be worth a look. It integrates well with Dreamweaver including its templates but is easier to learn and use. I have used it to manage a site professionally developed with Dreamweaver. It probably offers the least pain to move up to Dreamweaver or other Macromedia tools. Otherwise other programs like CoffeeCup are probably better options if they meet your foreseeable needs, as I would not expect them to present the potential problems of FrontPage.
    Last edited by John Hertzler; 10-21-2005 at 09:21 AM.

  13. #13
    Alpha Software Employee Lenny Forziati's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Hertzler
    • Articles I have read on FrontPage state that it leaves artifacts on editing and does not provide clean html. While I never had problems, I pretty much stuck to editing in FrontPage. I understand that the newest edition has cleaned some of the coding issues up. Still, I would question how well the html would be interpreted by the Alpha Web Server.
    While FrontPage does sometimes generate non-standard HTML, as you mentioned the more recent versions are better about this. But in any case, the Web Application Server does not interpret HTML, it sends it to the browser as-is and it is the browser's job to interpret and render it. This is the way all web servers work. So in this regard, there is no problem using FrontPage to create pages that will be served by the Web Application Server.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Hertzler
    • Chuck Tanner states many ISP and commercial servers support the FP extensions so don't let that scare you. While this is true, I have not seen any of the commercial sites offering the Alpha Web Server service, touting that they can offer FrontPage Extensions. Perhaps they could correct me if I am wrong. Or has anyone running their own site successfully integrated the Extensions?
    It is not possible to use the FrontPage Extensions with the Web Application Server. This is because Microsoft only makes them available for IIS and Apache web servers.

    Also, as of FrontPage 2003, there are no longer any server extensions available. Instead, if you wish to use the advanced FrontPage functionality, you must host your site with a server that uses Windows SharePoint Services, which is only available for Windows Server 2003 servers. This means that all of the Unix/Linux based hosting providers that currently support the FrontPage extensions will not be able to host FrontPage 2003 sites that go beyond basic HTML.

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    Thanks for your comments Lenny. Every day I get a little more understanding of the Web Server and I take it that your comments support that FrontPage may not be the best option for working with an Alpha Dominated website.

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    Alpha Software Employee Lenny Forziati's Avatar
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    Actually FP is fine as long as you don't use the features that require the FP server extensions. And chances are that if you are using the Web App Server, you don't want them anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Hertzler
    Thanks for your comments Lenny. Every day I get a little more understanding of the Web Server and I take it that your comments support that FrontPage may not be the best option for working with an Alpha Dominated website.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dermot
    I have used Frontage for 5 years now to build my own sites and never had a problem. Almost all web hosting companies have the Frontpage extensions so it is not a big deal anymore. You cannot beat it for putting a site together quickly, plus there are some great templates you can buy to get a jump start.

    If you build web sites for a living it may not be the best tool but for you own work it will do just fine. Dreamweaver is no doubt a great tool and I have tried it many times but never had the time it would take to be actually get anything done. Also if you want to use the Coldfusion part of Dreamweaver for database stuff, it will require that the server supports Coldfusion so it is not much different than Frontpage in that regard.

    Dismissing Frontpage for building a website because of its extensions is like dismissing the Alpha Web builder for building database web sites because it requires the WAS server.

    Here is a link to a product specific site of mine built with Frontpage. It is simple, clean and fast, no fancy graphics. www.quickestimator.com

    Regards
    Hi Dermot,
    The Quick Estimator looks very nice, was that built using Alpha Five? if not what did you use? you could PM me if you want but if possible please post hear
    for others to see. This is what makes this board so useful.
    Kind Regards,
    Ray Roosa
    Raylin Micro, LLC.

  17. #17
    Alpha Software Employee Lenny Forziati's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayr
    Hi Dermot,
    The Quick Estimator looks very nice, was that built using Alpha Five? if not what did you use? you could PM me if you want but if possible please post hear
    for others to see. This is what makes this board so useful.

    Ray, Dermot already said, and you in fact quoted:
    Quote Originally Posted by Dermot
    Here is a link to a product specific site of mine built with Frontpage. It is simple, clean and fast, no fancy graphics. www.quickestimator.com

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny Forziati
    Ray, Dermot already said, and you in fact quoted:
    Lenny,

    With all due respect he said the site was created with FrontPage, what I am
    asking is what did he use for building his application "Quick Estimator"

    If I am missing something please due let me know.

    By the way Lenny did you get my Email about AJAX? because I did not get a response on that question.:(
    Kind Regards,
    Ray Roosa
    Raylin Micro, LLC.

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    Hi Ray

    Yes the web site was done in Frontpage but the Quick Estimator software was done in Access. I am redoing it in Alpha Five which will make it a much better product even. The feature requests I am getting from customers are just not possible with Access but are more than possible with Alpha.

    Lenny is correct in that if your are going to run your site on the Alpha WAS then you cannot use the Frontpage extensions and he is right that you probably don't need them in that case.

    Regards
    Dermot Fitzpatrick
    www.fitzsolutions.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayr
    Lenny,
    With all due respect he said the site was created with FrontPage, what I am
    asking is what did he use for building his application "Quick Estimator"
    My apologizies then Ray, I misunderstood what you were asking

    Quote Originally Posted by Rayr
    By the way Lenny did you get my Email about AJAX? because I did not get a response on that question.:(
    I do not know when the AJAX functionality will be incorporated into the product.

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    Member Rayr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lenny Forziati
    My apologizies then Ray, I misunderstood what you were asking


    I do not know when the AJAX functionality will be incorporated into the product.
    Thank you Lenny.
    Kind Regards,
    Ray Roosa
    Raylin Micro, LLC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayr
    Lenny,

    With all due respect he said the site was created with FrontPage, what I am
    asking is what did he use for building his application "Quick Estimator"

    If I am missing something please due let me know.

    By the way Lenny did you get my Email about AJAX? because I did not get a response on that question.:(
    AJAX is a technique. If you are coding you own .A5W pages today, you can incorporate AJAX. There is nothing special about AJAX, and a skilled developer (regardless of whether they are using Xbasic in .a5w pages, VBScript in .ASP pages, PHP in .php pages) can incorporate AJAX techniques in their pages.

    Future versions of the Alpha Web Components will start using AJAX techniques so that you don't have to manually code pages in order to get the benefits of AJAX.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selwyn Rabins
    AJAX is a technique. If you are coding you own .A5W pages today, you can incorporate AJAX. There is nothing special about AJAX, and a skilled developer (regardless of whether they are using Xbasic in .a5w pages, VBScript in .ASP pages, PHP in .php pages) can incorporate AJAX techniques in their pages.

    Future versions of the Alpha Web Components will start using AJAX techniques so that you don't have to manually code pages in order to get the benefits of AJAX.
    thank you Selwyn
    Kind Regards,
    Ray Roosa
    Raylin Micro, LLC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Selwyn Rabins
    AJAX is a technique. If you are coding you own .A5W pages today, you can incorporate AJAX. There is nothing special about AJAX, and a skilled developer (regardless of whether they are using Xbasic in .a5w pages, VBScript in .ASP pages, PHP in .php pages) can incorporate AJAX techniques in their pages.

    Future versions of the Alpha Web Components will start using AJAX techniques so that you don't have to manually code pages in order to get the benefits of AJAX.
    Selwyn,
    Whats a good site that I can go to so I can see what all the hype is about with AJAX? and so I can see how to implement it.
    Kind Regards,
    Ray Roosa
    Raylin Micro, LLC.

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    Whats a good site that I can go to so I can see what all the hype is about with AJAX? and so I can see how to implement it.
    You could start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX

    Seems to explain it preety well.

    Regards
    Dermot Fitzpatrick
    www.fitzsolutions.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermot
    You could start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX

    Seems to explain it preety well.

    Regards
    Dermot,

    I will have a look - thank you
    Kind Regards,
    Ray Roosa
    Raylin Micro, LLC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermot
    Hi Ray

    Yes the web site was done in Frontpage but the Quick Estimator software was done in Access. I am redoing it in Alpha Five which will make it a much better product even. The feature requests I am getting from customers are just not possible with Access but are more than possible with Alpha.

    Lenny is correct in that if your are going to run your site on the Alpha WAS then you cannot use the Frontpage extensions and he is right that you probably don't need them in that case.

    Regards
    Dermot,
    Well I have to tell you the screen look really clean and professional looking at the screen shots, nice job :)
    Kind Regards,
    Ray Roosa
    Raylin Micro, LLC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rayr
    Dermot,
    Well I have to tell you the screen look really clean and professional looking at the screen shots, nice job :)
    Thanks Ray.
    Dermot Fitzpatrick
    www.fitzsolutions.com

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dermot
    Thanks Ray.
    Your welcome, if you could remember to show me how the finished screens come out in Alpha Five, I would like to see that. I think if the finished product
    turns out at least as nice as it did in Access, your screen shots should be posted somewhere on Alpha Software (like a poster child) to show off what can be accomplished with Alpha Five :D
    Kind Regards,
    Ray Roosa
    Raylin Micro, LLC.

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    Dermot,

    Your screen shots are very impressive. Just curious. Are you building your'e new Alpha version of Quick Estimator as a web product?

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