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Ideal Server hardware

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    Ideal Server hardware

    I'm planing on purchasing the V7 Web Server. I would be setting this up on a separate machine, which I have yet to purchase. Aside from bandwidth, a fast CPU and a fast hard drive are essential, what else should I look for?

    What about memory. Would there be much of a performance difference between 1 gig and 4 gig? Would dual processors help? Is the V7 application server configured to take advantage of any other special hardware configurations? CPU or hard drive cache? Special network card? Etc.

    #2
    Alpha will take advantage of CPU and hard drive caching, but it will not benefit from mulitple processors at this time.

    Memory will depend on your application and the number of users you have, but I think 4GB is probbaly overkill. 1GB is probably enough for most apps, 2GB won't hurt if you can afford it but may not help much if your app doesn't need it.

    Originally posted by neil_albala
    I'm planing on purchasing the V7 Web Server. I would be setting this up on a separate machine, which I have yet to purchase. Aside from bandwidth, a fast CPU and a fast hard drive are essential, what else should I look for?

    What about memory. Would there be much of a performance difference between 1 gig and 4 gig? Would dual processors help? Is the V7 application server configured to take advantage of any other special hardware configurations? CPU or hard drive cache? Special network card? Etc.

    Lenny Forziati
    Vice President, Internet Products and Technical Services
    Alpha Software Corporation

    Comment


      #3
      Neil, FWIW
      I bought the cheapest web server I could get, with 256mb of ram, about 500 bucks. Bought Windows 2003 server, and the Alpha WAS.
      I have hosted a 100,000 record Alpha database, several Filemaker databases, some of them with 100,000 records, and multiple websites, all at once with a low end DSL with static IP. I didn't have any problems. Searches in the WAS took about 4 seconds, and it didn't seem to matter whether the fields were indexed or not or if you searched on more than one field at once. This was a test to see how cheap I could go.
      Bingo!
      (Your results may vary)
      Remember, I don't have the backup, 24 hour monitoring and backup power, security, support, etc. that a host like Alpha online has, so price is relative depending on how important your application is. I'm just playing at this point, testing the waters so to speak.

      Having said that, I'd be willing to set up a test. I'll put up a database and 10 of you access it all at once, at a pre-determined date and time. See how it goes. If the results are acceptable, we'll sign up 20 people, then 30 etc. until it craps out. That should be a good benchmark. I've only been trying this myself so I can't speak for how many concurrent users it will handle, but I would like to know.

      Bill Belanger
      Last edited by [email protected]; 11-07-2005, 09:11 PM.

      Comment


        #4
        thanks...

        Thanks Lenny. Thanks Bill. That's exactly what I wanted to know.

        Bill, you can put me on your list if you need some help testing. I'm here in the office, online most weekdays.

        You said, "and it didn't seem to matter whether the fields were indexed or not." This I find very surprising. My thinking is... if you do a search on two fields, where one is indexed and the other not, you definitely should see a quicker response on the indexed field search, even with 100,000 records. If you're getting the same response on both searches, then the indexed search is probably not catching... IMHO.

        Good idea though... about starting with a cheap machine. I think I may do that as well.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Ideal Server hardware

          Originally posted by Lenny Forziati View Post
          Alpha will take advantage of CPU and hard drive caching, but it will not benefit from mulitple processors at this time.

          Memory will depend on your application and the number of users you have, but I think 4GB is probbaly overkill. 1GB is probably enough for most apps, 2GB won't hurt if you can afford it but may not help much if your app doesn't need it.

          With the new version of Alpha coming out soon, will it still be true that the WAS doesn't benefit from Dual Processors?

          I'm about to buy a new server and need some input.

          /waves to Lenny and Alpha in general.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Ideal Server hardware

            I'm happy with my Dell 2600, 2G Memory, Windows 2003 Server. But that's also my lan server and surely overkill as a web server only.

            I'd go with minimum 512 RAM (256 is a little short in my opinion. I see most computers turn a corner for speed once you upgrade to 512 or higher).

            I recall Richard saying Alpha had purchased a Dell server for $600 with 2-CPU's and saw WAS was much faster with that dual processor computer; but I'd believe Lenny on the technical issue. Ite may be that the dual processor just made the computer run faster in general.

            I can also confirm you can run multiple hosted WAS applications at 512 RAM on a Windows 2003 Enterprise Server. The WAS runs at about 62MB memory.

            If your data is important, include RAID5 in your system, and/or a real good backup system. I've lost one hard disk on my Dell 2600 and having RAID saved the day.
            Steve Wood
            See my profile on IADN

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Ideal Server hardware

              Originally posted by Steve Wood View Post
              I'm happy with my Dell 2600, 2G Memory, Windows 2003 Server. But that's also my lan server and surely overkill as a web server only.

              I'd go with minimum 512 RAM (256 is a little short in my opinion. I see most computers turn a corner for speed once you upgrade to 512 or higher).

              I recall Richard saying Alpha had purchased a Dell server for $600 with 2-CPU's and saw WAS was much faster with that dual processor computer; but I'd believe Lenny on the technical issue. Ite may be that the dual processor just made the computer run faster in general.

              I can also confirm you can run multiple hosted WAS applications at 512 RAM on a Windows 2003 Enterprise Server. The WAS runs at about 62MB memory.

              If your data is important, include RAID5 in your system, and/or a real good backup system. I've lost one hard disk on my Dell 2600 and having RAID saved the day.

              Thanks for responding, Steve.

              I have a fairly decent HP ML 1XX box at the moment but would like to know about the benefits (if any) of multi-processor servers as it relates to Alpha's upcoming newest release.

              I don't want to waste money. Who does?

              Lenny wrote:

              "Alpha will take advantage of CPU and hard drive caching, but it will not benefit from mulitple processors at this time." On 11-07-2005, 07:03 PM


              Lenny, is this going to remain true for the V8 version of the WAS ?


              I really need know before I mash the "Buy Server" button.

              Thanks

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Ideal Server hardware

                If Lenny can't answer this question, is there anyone in Alpha that can? I'm not asking you to write my program, but I do need to know your software's multiprocessor capability so I can purchase a server.

                Does V8 still not take advantage of multiprocessors.

                I'm looking for a yes or no.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Ideal Server hardware

                  Clint,

                  I would suggest you contact Alpha regarding this as the Alpha employees may or may not see a post on the messageboard--am quite sure they do not monitor each and every post....these are forums for us not them. Maybe even email Lenny directly seeing as he had already posted a response once?


                  Mike
                  Mike
                  __________________________________________
                  It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
                  It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
                  Henry David Thoreau
                  __________________________________________



                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Ideal Server hardware

                    Originally posted by MikeC View Post
                    Clint,

                    I would suggest you contact Alpha regarding this as the Alpha employees may or may not see a post on the messageboard--am quite sure they do not monitor each and every post....these are forums for us not them. Maybe even email Lenny directly seeing as he had already posted a response once?


                    Mike
                    Thanks for responding Mike. Lenny was responding to someone else in this forum back in November 2005. Since he (an Alpaha employee) knew the answer then, logic dictates, he should know the answer now. He doesn't take email directly either.

                    He's just being coy and is waiting for just the right keystrokes from me to unload his knowledge unto me.

                    /me prays this was the right keystroke sequence..... so much time wasted.....

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Ideal Server hardware

                      Clint, I prefer cash "donations" to keystrokes ;)

                      In Version 8, the Alpha process will not cross processors, either physical or logical. This means that if you run a single copy of Alpha on your multi-CPU system, only one of those CPUs will be utilized.

                      However if you will be running multiple copies of Alpha, such as on a terminal server, you can control which CPU Alpha should run on and/or tell it to automatically select the "best" processor. This lets you spread the running instances of Alpha across the processors to take advantage of the additional power that the hardware can offer.

                      For more info, see the following links

                      Lenny Forziati
                      Vice President, Internet Products and Technical Services
                      Alpha Software Corporation

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Ideal Server hardware

                        Originally posted by Lenny Forziati View Post
                        Clint, I prefer cash "donations" to keystrokes ;)

                        In Version 8, the Alpha process will not cross processors, either physical or logical. This means that if you run a single copy of Alpha on your multi-CPU system, only one of those CPUs will be utilized.

                        However if you will be running multiple copies of Alpha, such as on a terminal server, you can control which CPU Alpha should run on and/or tell it to automatically select the "best" processor. This lets you spread the running instances of Alpha across the processors to take advantage of the additional power that the hardware can offer.

                        For more info, see the following links

                        Has anyone moved in this direction and used the command line options? What has been impact on performance?

                        I recently saw a server for under $20k with 10 quad core xeon processors with up to 60gb of ram. For years I have periodically thought of what it would be like to run an app in ram and with these new multi-core processors and some serious ram I am hoping the dream is not far off.

                        Combine this with some linux hosting software that uses 25k ram and 25mhz cpu per user and you can get some interesting possibilities. The software runs under $1k u.s. and allows simultaneous access to the box. So all an end user would need would be internet access and this software has a multi-platform client interface. Now, if you could get Alpha runtime working on this kind of box you could sure eliminate of lot of windows overhead / cost issues. I have read somewhere (I think it was Filemaker), a dbf based system running on win4lin emulators.

                        Is it conceptually possible to have Alpha 5 run on a windows emulator?



                        Ken

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Ideal Server hardware

                          So, you think that, if I upgrade the ram, this will increase the stability of the machine to 100%? Alpha hangs at least once a day (sometimes 3 or 4), causing the fan to sound like it's war in there. I have to have Task Manager shut it down, wait for the fan to return to normal, then restart Alpha. Sometimes Alpha closes on it's own. This is quite a headache for shoppers! And for me, since, if I have to be near the machine 24/7, I can't take vacations, can I?

                          Here's what I've got:
                          Dell ACPT Uniprocessor PC
                          Intel Pentium 4 CPU 2.80 GHz
                          256mb ram

                          The box is another node on the lan, with all of the data files for the company. But that data is only being read. I'm not running anything else on it. Help!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Ideal Server hardware

                            256 is probably inadequate, see my first post. If Alpha is spiking memory (causing the fan to speed) you may also have a problem in your application code. Also be sure you are on the latest release.
                            Steve Wood
                            See my profile on IADN

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Ideal Server hardware

                              Like Steve said, 256mb isn't very much memory. RAM is cheap, so I'd upgrade to at least 2GB. Depending on the memory your system uses, you're looking at less than $50 and it should make a big difference all around.

                              It's possible that the system is totally out of memory and working hard to swap data to and from disk, which would slow things way down, and a memory upgarde would cure that.

                              And I also think he's right about pointing you at your application itself. While the memory upgrade will be money well spent in my opinion, what you are describing could defintely be caused by bad code in your application.

                              Comment

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