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Alpha5 "for non-programmers". That's BS!

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    #46
    I also think one should differentiate between working with A5 versus working with relational databases. If you don't understand the fundamentals of relational databases, then action scripting is not going to be very helpful.

    I DO agree that the "no programming required" is not a valid claim. Action scripting is programming and you need action scripting, at least, to make A5 work.

    I remember one database program (I think is was called Samba) that asked a series of questions, then wrote the application for you. It was very limited, of course. ... but that was a database development tool that did not require programming.

    A better claim would be "menu-based" programming as well as the traditional "code-based" programming.

    BTW, I would get Dr. Wayne's books if you plan on using A5 at all. His new "XBASIC for Everyone" should be required reading for newbies who want to program. I can't remember the title of his other one "Alpha 5 for Everyone"?. But I do remember it guides through making a checkbook register application and is a good place to start with A5.
    Mark Campidonica

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      #47
      The name of the book is "Application Programming in Alpha Five, Version 5". I don't know if it is still available (it's not listed on the Alpha Web site for sale), but I found it helpful.
      Mark Campidonica

      Comment


        #48
        I am a non-programmer that knows very little about xbasic and the documentation is a little vague. I would like to see more samples. I purchased Dr. Waynes book and found a lot of great information. Prior to this I was able to get A5 to work for the most part for just about everything I wanted it to do. When I had a problem it was mostly user error. I did not have something connected the way A5 wanted to see it, but the way I thought logical. Once I figured this out I was good to go. The tech support on the help site has always been very helpful. You just need to have some patients.

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          #49
          Felt like I was re-reading one of my early posts. I am a hard core non programmer and knew nothing of database design. Jumped and and was frustrated like someone going from basic arithmetic to advanced algebra in one jump. Man. I know more now. While A5 doesn't require programming as such, simply learning the necessary access points to be able to drill down through the controls was a challenge. And I still have trouble wrapping my brain around how tables are arranged in sets properly. At one point I even thought I'd try Access. Felt even dumber. Then I thought I'd try FileMaker Pro. Could not even find reference to, let alone figure out how to set up a logical field. Man. All of a sudden A5 looked a little better. I have needed a lot of help on many things - and usually it has been very available and sometimes I even understand why what has been done has been done and sometimes even how. But it isn't something that rewards just diving in and fighting your way through. Or trying to learn in 15 minutes a day. As for writing scripts...that will never happen with me. I know it is limiting, but I know my limits as well. And the time and focus just aren't there anymore - if they ever were. That said, what little I do know and have learned about Alpha convinces me that it is a very complex tool and that explaining it requires a lot of time and interaction with the program - and people who know how to use it. ...which a lot of us aren't prepared for because most productivity programs are much simpler to learn and use in a basic sense. But once you get an application where you want it, Alpha is a great productivity enhancement tool. Unless your data handling need is quite extensive, you might be able to do what you need done with a spreadsheet and save yourself some time and aggravation.

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            #50
            Alpha for none programmers.

            I have used Alpha for about 2 years and although I have had problems I must say I do not program, I am actually dyslexic and find it so hard to look at lots of coding. I do think it would give you a lot more flexibility if you can but I do not think it is essential.
            Although I have struggled at times I have eventually managed to do most things I have needed.

            If I were to quibble about anything it wolud be the help available the documentation can be a little hard to understand if you are a none programmer and if you are saying it is for none programmers maybe the help available should reflect this. "eg explaining syntaxis if you are using Action Scripting"

            On the other side I must say that most of the time I do get the answers to my questions from this site.

            It would be nice if the docs were better as being dyslexic I struggle to put down questions I would like answering to post to the site.

            Over all I think that Alpha is a great package and the users on this site are fantastic.

            Keep up the good work all of you and thanks for helping me even if you have not known you have.

            Aidy

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              #51
              Can you be more specific about what you need from the documentation?

              Comment


                #52
                Alpha for none programers.

                I have got to say Edward that has to be the fastest response to a post I have seen.

                The point I was trying to make is that although the documentation has a vast amount of information in it, it can be hard to understand at times if you are not a programmer.

                It tends to be either too basic and simplistic, which if you are new can be very benreficial or too indepth, there is not anough middle ground.

                I personally do not do too badly now, but I relally have struggled at times to understand some things that are being said.

                I have worked in the computing industry for a number of years and it can be very difficult getting people who can program to explain it to the novice in such a way that thay do understand.

                The main problem I have come across has been when I am trying to build an expression within expression builder, lets say you go to function, You then get your list of functions and as you move down the list a good explanation of what each one does, So far so good. The problem i have found (maybe im not too bright) but when you then come to choose the one you want the explanation of the sintax can sometimes mean nothing to you if you are new.

                Lets say count, in the list it says "count(a subexpr[,g over[,g each])"
                If you are new what does that mean? What is "a subexpr", what dos "["mean? What is "g over"? etc.

                Maybe if you had a bit of a simplistic explanation in the documentation people would grasp it a lot easier. Although they know what count does thay cant always get it to work.

                Im not too sure I am making myself clear and I am now over a lot of the problems I am trying to explain but I do remember what it was like and sometimes still is.

                But I must say I still use Alpha over its counter parts and it still works for me most of the time.

                Hope you can understand what I am trying to say and keep on improving the product.

                Thanks for such a quick reply.

                Aidy

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                  #53
                  Unfair. You picked the most difficult function in the list!

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                    #54
                    My 2 cents

                    A5 documentation? The only thing I don't like is information like:

                    For internal use only.

                    For the rest two thumbs up !! :D
                    Marcel

                    I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand.
                    ---- Confusius ----

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Ed - I agree with needing some better documentation. The examples on some of the functions are either so simple that it does not solve anything, but maybe helps in the definition of the function or dives right in on xbasic code which usually runs about a page. All the extra code creates a whole new line of research to learn about other functions. I found that the example database "Alpha Sports" helps a lot but, is also time consuming searching for an area that uses the function that you are looking for.

                      I still like the program and am still learning everyday. Most of the time if I can't figure out my problem someone on this site can help or approach the problem a different way.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Hey, I'm still trying figure out what "dim" means and why I need it so often???

                        Comment


                          #57
                          DIM creates a variable and tells Alpha Five what type it is, what its default value (if any) is, and what its scope is.

                          Comment


                            #58
                            I think questions for reading the documentation (in this case) would be:

                            What does type of variable mean

                            What is the default value or any other value

                            What is a scope

                            Chris
                            If It Works First Time, There's Something Wrong!!!

                            Comment


                              #59
                              It's time for you to hit the books. Check out DIM and Variable Data Types and Scope.

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Referring to the reference recently referred:
                                "U V5 Collection Any type of data, depending on what the collection contains."

                                Uh, is a definition supposed to use the word being defined to define the defined word? And just where are those darned WMD's? It's work, hard work!

                                :)
                                Richard

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