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Thread: Disappearing data - or so it seems

  1. #1
    "Certified" Alphaholic
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    Default Disappearing data - or so it seems

    Good morning,

    In a sub-form, when the user switches from the parent form to an existing record in the sub-form (parent form fields are from the set, and sub-forms are from individual tables, all linked by SIT_ID), the sub-form's data appears to simply disappear when the tab key is pushed.

    What's left is that the first several fields' data disappears. When the user pushes the PageUp button, the data reappears.

    The really odd things is that it is only the first few fields' data that disappears. The last few fields' data remains visible.

    I'va packed, updated indexes, to no avail. I also have the most recent v7 patch installed.

    Any ideas?

    Thank you,
    Wanda

  2. #2
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    Default

    Nope. Sorry. If others are silent, go ahead and post a working copy of the app here with instructions for us to follow to see the behavior.

    -- tom

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    Member ChrisHawkes's Avatar
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    Wanda

    I would be most interested in the solution to your problem - I have a similar problem with only 1 of my apps.

    Chris
    If It Works First Time, There's Something Wrong!!!

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    Default db attached, with instructions

    1. Open Sites form.
    2. Place curser in any field of the parent form, for instance, in the Street field.
    3. Scroll down to the bottom of the form and click on the Buildings tab.
    4. Place curser in the Square Feet field and press Tab.

    It is haphazzard. You should see the data in the fields along the bottom inside a box (labeled Shut-off Locations). You should also see that the data in the fields on the left side of this tabbed sub-form (Site ID, Building, Quantity, Construction) disappear.

    If the fields don't disappear when you follow these steps, go back to step 1 and press PageDown for a different parent record and repeat the remaining setps.

    Many thanks,
    Wanda

  5. #5
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    Default db attached

    Oops...here's the db.

  6. #6
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    Default The remaining fields are memo fields

    I discovered that the fields that remain populated are all memo fields...so, it's as if pressing tab actually opens a new record, except for the memo fields...are there still problems with using memo fields?
    Wanda

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    Default

    Wanda,

    I took a look, and can confirm the behavior you're seeing. Cannot diagnose this for you.

    You've placed a series of subforms on separate pages of a tabbed control, each subform is for a one to many child table that's part of the set.

    The set supporting your form includes 10 linked one to many child tables, and referential integrity is enabled for all 10 tables.

    Your set bears the same name as one of its tables.

    I have no experience doing it this way. My design bible is "Simplify Your Applications" at www.learnalpha.com.

    The field blanking you are experiencing may be caused by some process in the form, field rules, or the subform starting a new record when you are not expecting it.

    -- tom

  8. #8
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    Default

    Well put, Tom. In my opinion, the app is quite simple...so, I guess that's a matter of opinion.

    I suspect it is something with the memo fields, which have been pesky over the years, and because it's only the memo fields that remain populated...

    I'll keep searching and will post any success.

    Thank you,
    Wanda

  9. #9
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    Wanda,

    The app may be simple, I wouldn't argue that. But the form you've built for data entry is complex.

    Here's a link to the article I referenced. I recommend it to you.

    http://www.learnalpha.com/SimplifyYo...ifyYourApp.htm

    The correct article title is "Simplify Your Applications for Better Performance"

    -- tom

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    Default It's necessary to place all parent and child data on one form

    Thank you, Tom. I'll take a look. I wouldn't normally put all the tables on one form, however, due to the nature of what this database will be used for, it is necessary that all data related to each parent record be simultaneously visible for the sake of speedily searching through the records to find the right shelter to open.

    This database contains information on the county's Mass Care Shelter sites that can be opened for displaced individuals due to a disaster such as a residential complex fire, an earthquake, a flood, etc.

    This database wouldn't serve that purpose very well if the operator has to view several different forms in order to determine which one shelter site has all the necessary "services" such as feeding, cooking, sleeping, sanitation, payphones, and is suitable for such needs as a storm shelter, or earthquake bracing, or not used by fire departments, etc.

    Wanda

  11. #11
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    Hey Tom,
    I looked at the article you recommended. Thank you. It doesn't apply to my situation or to my needs, however, because my database is not networked; nor could I design it to where a user could search for any one thing when trying to find a proper shelter. Each disaster brings its own unique qualities, so all of its amenities need to be ascertained at a quick glance.

    I do have a two menus for specific searches, however they both return the data via the Sites form.

    Can you see any place where I can change the design and still be able to provide all the data at a glance?

    Thanks,
    W

  12. #12
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    Default

    Hi Wanda,

    I looked at your app. I haven't really found out the reason or cause. However, I see that your main menu is based on the Sites table. You can open the main menu and scroll through the record count from the main menu.

    That along with a table named the same as the set makes me wonder. I would really make the main menu based off of a "Dummy" table, and I would rename the set something different from any table name.

    I think after you do this, the problem may be easier to find.
    Dan

    Dan Blank builds Databases
    Skype: danblank

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    Wanda,

    If it were me, I'd disable referential integrity on all linked child tables. Then I'd use the complex form only for navigation and "viewing". Edits would be made using simpler forms, called from the complex form.

    I'd change the name of the sites set, so that it does not duplicate the name of it's primary table.

    I'd use Dr. Wayne's article called "Memos and Browses That Work" to design the data entry routines and forms for all memo field text.

    I'd abandon the use of the tabbed object, replacing it with a Conditional Object, instead.

    -- tom

  14. #14
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    Wanda

    Does the new patch make a difference?

    Chris
    If It Works First Time, There's Something Wrong!!!

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    Default

    Now, you're scaring me. I don't have the time to do a total re-design, unfortunately. And the last I knew, renaming a table can create all kinda of havoc, so I'm hesitant to do that. Is this still the case? If not, then I'll rename the set.

    Dan, I should have known to create a dummy table to base the Main Menu on. You're right. It's been a long time since I've had to design something for someone else to use - thus the necessity for a Main Menu. I'll play with renaming it, or copying it to a dummy table.

    If renaming doesn't solve the problem, then I can consider having the form as it is now for viewing/searching, only; and hopefully be able to copy/past different sections into their own form for data entry. I'm frustrated that this should even be necessary, though...will post my results.

    Thank you,
    Wanda

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    Default None of the suggestions work...

    No success, yet. I've tried everything I can think of, including:
    1. Set the main menu up on a dummy table
    2. Renamed the set
    3. Removed the referential integrity from the Buildings table
    4. Indexed Buildings on Record number
    5. Indexed Buildings on Site_ID, then Record number
    6. Set focus on the very next field in the Buildings table on various fields
    7. Changed the memo fields to character fields

    The problem seems to be that the child records in the Buildings table, when switching from the parent to the child, defaults to the focus being on the last child record. How can I change this if indexing it doesn't place the records in record number order when the Buildings form receives focus?

    Thank you,
    Wanda

  17. #17
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    I've also indicated in the Forms properties to set the indexes to Site_ID+Recno() on both the parent (Sites table) record and the child records in the Buildings table.

    Could there be a problem from chosing all the fields in this form from their own tables, instead of from the set?

    Also, I'm leaving in 1 1/2 hours and won't be back to work on this for a couple of weeks...so by then either I'll just decide to give up, or someone hopefully will have a solution.

    Thank you,
    Wanda

  18. #18
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    Wanda

    You could try putting a hidden browse on each subform for the relevant table. This was a suggestion by Selwyn which helped (but not totally cured) my problem.

    Chris
    If It Works First Time, There's Something Wrong!!!

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    What would be the purpose of a hidden browse, and what is the "relevant" table...the parent or the child? (Presumably the child table that is giving me problems, right?)
    Thank you,
    Wanda

  20. #20
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    Wanda

    I will take a look at the zip (above) and let you know.

    Chris
    If It Works First Time, There's Something Wrong!!!

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    Default same problem, but different

    I have experienced the same problem on my App.

    I thought I has some fields declared as too long and they were "writing" over the following fields. When I "save" the Form, 4 numeric field disappear. If I enable edits, and select those fields, the data is there.

    I haven't figured out the problem yet....

    I will pack the demo database and send it along...

    Use ENTRY FORM, record #6, Press EDIT and go to the optional Services at the bottom. Select a service and then a price.

    When you Push UPDATE the Numeric fields will disappear....

    From what I read, this SOUNDS SIMILAR, but in a much simpler application...

    Maybe someone can tell me how to fix mine and get an Idea on hers...


    Bob

  22. #22
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    Default Reverse the order in the subform?

    Ms. Tucker --

    This sounds like a similar problem I experienced where the records in an embedded browse seemed to disappear because a5 was scrolling through the table to the last record. I fixed the problem by reversing the order of records in the browse so that the earlier records appear below the last one in the table. It is not what I originally intended, but seems to work OK.

    -- Dick James

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Disappearing data - or so it seems

    Hi there... I found the SAME thing with an application I am supporting and trying to troubleshoot.
    I have 4 tables in a set, one master table, 4 sub tables all one level down. I have a tabbed form to display the 3 sub forms, one in each tab. In 2 out 3 of the sub forms, it works perfectly. In one subform however, the user enters the cursor into one text field, and BOOM! All the data on that record is gone from view. If I move away from the record, by navigating to a new master record, then go back, then all is there. It is a display problem, not a true loss of data problem. This is V9, desktop, build 2391.

    Please help if you know.. this is very tough to diagnose!
    Logical Design
    Keven Thibeault
    Boston, Massachusetts
    Dwell in possibility

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Disappearing data - or so it seems

    I'd be curious to know if the problem goes away if you don't use subforms or the tabbed control?

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