has anyone used the 'memo as HTML' feature

[martinwcole]

For the first time ever I have a client who uses memo fields extensively. And they want the features of RTF. Is anyone using the feature Selwyn wrote and demos using activex to create and store memos as HTML, but using a regular memo field in the table.

And/or - is anyone successfully using RTF memos?

[martinwcole]

Re: has anyone used the 'memo as HTML' feature

for entering data, it is really a cool feature - but I cannot figure out how to print it. I made a test report, from the demo provided in samples, and put an activex object on the report, and in the report 'onprininit' I put this code

dim px as p 
px = topparent:activex1.activex
px.documenthtml = t.HTMLNOTES

but it doesn't work
also, I don't see a way to expand or shrink its size, if I could get it to print
also if I print a layout, it doesn't show there either

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: has anyone used the 'memo as HTML' feature

Hi Martin,

RTF memos are a source of great frustration. Ever since they added "styles" they don't work right (at least for me). That active-x regular-memo field sample in v.7 is the cat's pajamas. But as you found out, you can't print them since they embed the HTML constructs in the memo itself. So until they build us a "printer" to correspond to that active-x memo, we're outta luck.

[martinwcole]

Re: has anyone used the 'memo as HTML' feature

I sent Selwyn an email. I suspect there is a way to print it - but would be up to someone at Selwyn's level to know how to do it. I don't know if he'll have time to mess with it, as he is busy working on V8.

[John Oesterle]

Re: has anyone used the 'memo as HTML' feature

And/or - is anyone successfully using RTF memos?

I've commented on this before...I have a quotation app in daily use now for at least 6 years based upon RTF memos. I used Peter Wayne's suggestions for structuring memo apps (separate table, opening & saving a new blank RTF record, etc.). And I also only allow a single workstation to create & edit quotes. A copy of the data files is available for query/research/printing by all other workstations. This app includes the capability of creating and retrieving "boilerplate" text--in this case the boilerplate stuff most used are custom closings including signiture blocks.

There appear to be several flaws in RTF memos beyond the corruption issues most folks discuss. For example, since this app is a job quote system most quotes have multiple line items, sometimes with sub-grouping requirements. I have not been able to make the TAB feature behave consistently in creating invoice-like columns. Very often the columns will appear correctly formatted on screen but the printed version will have jagged columns. FWIW, I got around this problem by dividing the full quote into discrete sections: header; text (RTF); items; closing (RTF). Also, to achieve consistency in saving a RTF memo record I inforce double-saving the record. Otherwise the user will be surprised to find that edits that he/she thought were saved are not!

With these caveats the .fpt files have remained clean and fully functional and the app has run pretty much without a hitch.

- John O

[martinwcole]

Re: has anyone used the 'memo as HTML' feature

Selwyn told me that activex is not supported for printing in V7, although it will be in V8. But he gave me an idea for making an auto backup of memo and/or rtfmemo data that could be used to restore memos if they become corrupted - much like how indexes are automatically recreated. When I get it perfected, I'll post an example.

[John Oesterle]

Re: has anyone used the 'memo as HTML' feature

Selwyn told me that activex is not supported for printing in V7, although it will be in V8. But he gave me an idea for making an auto backup of memo and/or rtfmemo data that could be used to restore memos if they become corrupted - much like how indexes are automatically recreated. When I get it perfected, I'll post an example.

I'd be interested in what you come up with!

- John O

[Cheryl Lemire]

Re: has anyone used the 'memo as HTML' feature

John,

FWIW, I got around this problem by dividing the full quote into discrete sections: header; text (RTF); items; closing (RTF).

I have a client that stopped using his alpha application because I could not get the RTF fields to format properly. Can you elaborate a bit more on what you stated above? Perhaps that is a work around for my client as well.

Thanks

[John Oesterle]

Re: has anyone used the 'memo as HTML' feature

Cheryl -

Okay...not sure there is any help for you here, but...

My original solution for the quotation app used two tables -- a header table and a second table with the RTF memo field. Header data includes to whom the quote is made, date, terms and quoted $. The RTF memo held everything else. Typically there are lengthly text blocks, an itemization section and a closing. The itemization section had several boilerplate format choices but for multiple items looks like a typical invoice format with up to 4 columns of data: Quantity; Item Description; $Each; and $Extended. It was the tabbing process to setup item data columns that yielded inconsistent results when printing the RTF. There was no rhyme or reason to the behavior. Sometimes what you saw on screen was what printed, and sometimes 1 or more line item column entries seemed either to be missing a tab or to have an extra tab inserted. To get the printed quote to have correctly aligned columns often required the screen version to have illogical tab formatting.

My workaround was to make the item section a separate table without any memo fields. The user enters the item data much as they would for an invoice. The report format knits together data from 4 tables, two of which have RTF memo fields. Items are printed in nice, neat, correctly aligned columns sandwiched between two RTF memo sections: the quote text section and the closing section including the signiture block.

Formatting in these remaining RTF memo sections is normally pretty simple: font type and size; bold, underline or italics; and, font color. These formatting selections seem to work consistently if they are explicitly applied. This is especially important to establishing or changing the font. Also important is that the RTF memo editor is opened for data entry and that the user Saves the work in the RTF memo editior AND in the form holding the RTF memo field (i.e., the double save).

It is important to my client to be able to query their quotation database for research purposes. In fact, we have provided a limited-feature version of this app to one of their large customers for their research needs. They are more than willing to follow non-traditional word processing methods to gain the ability to easily find quotes matching often complex query criteria.

What is your client attempting to do?

- John O

[Cheryl Lemire]

Re: has anyone used the 'memo as HTML' feature

Hi John,

Thanks for your reply. What you are doing would not solve my clients issue. I thought you had found a way to put formatting in the rtf memo itself. He is a pathology office and needs the tab, spacing, line enters, etc to work within the rtf.

As an example:

Test data long paragraph here ......

press enter key twice for blank line

press space bar three times and start more data

press enter key twice for blank line

press space bar three times and start more data

When viewing this in the report, the two that are spaced in 3 do NOT display that way. One may show as 2 and another as 4 or whatever combination alpha decides to use.

This makes his report extremely unprofessional looking.

Like I said, we stopped development in alpha as this was the most critical part of the application. He went with another boxed pkg for his industry. He would come back to alpha if we had control over the rtf. But until that happens, it is not worth the money. I can't tell you how much he has already paid towards development of his own customized alpha db for his business.

[Tom Cone Jr]

Re: has anyone used the 'memo as HTML' feature

One may show as 2 and another as 4 or whatever combination alpha decides to use.

Cheryl, this sounds like a font / justification issue. If the text is fully justified, or if the selected font is proportional (not fixed width), then the "width" of the blank spaces will vary. This is Windows at its best, and occurs in word processors very commonly.

If blank spaces are the issue, use tabs instead.

-- tom

[Cheryl Lemire]

Re: has anyone used the 'memo as HTML' feature

That very well could be a possibility, I would have to go back and do some further testing. However, it seems to me that something else is the issue. The issue itself is that what I see in the rtf is NOT what I see on the report. If the report and the rtf are using the same font etc, shouldn't they display the same?

[John Oesterle]

Re: has anyone used the 'memo as HTML' feature

Cheryl -

The inconsistency my client was having involved multiple Tabs on the same line. It might be worth the effort to check out a single Tab to indent a line.

- John O

[Cheryl Lemire]

Re: has anyone used the 'memo as HTML' feature

Thanks Tom and John. The client needs to be able to type in any tabs, spacing, combinations, etc to get the desired formatting in the rtf memo and have it display the same in a report. This is not happening in the current version. Perhaps V8 will be better. I will test it again then and see if alpha is a viable option for the client. Thanks for all of the ideas.

[Mike Wilson]

Re: has anyone used the 'memo as HTML' feature

Cheryl,

Being a pathologist myself, the current and the last system I work in every day interfaces MSWord as the textual transcription component of the database. I built a system for a particular component of our operations with A5 and found it workable interchanging with MSWord for the formatted textual components. I would be very interested to see what you have and understand what your clients unattainable wishes are.

Mike W