V8 release date

[rfha]

Re: V8 release date

And the nickname for the Wang you used was, "The Great American Screw Machine!" The odds are that I am right.

Wangs were the first computers used by F&I reps (Finance and Insurance) for ripping off the consumer. There were dozens of ways to secretly re-do a deal so that the buy really paid through the nose. This was way before the Truth in Lending act and the APR came. Rule of 78's was the game - pay all the interest up front.

How do I know this? I frequently got called to make changes to programs others had written.

Had one big time dealer in West Palm Beach who had me do some work on a cassette tape machine, probably the last in Florida except the one in my closet!

Did the work, kept them informed of the oost as we went along, showed them it worked, he offered to pay me half of my price! Yeh, right. Walked out the door, took my tape with me, he had to buy a brand new machine and software that cost 10 times what he owed me. Most satisfying job I ever had. LOL Car dealers...

[DaveM]

Re: V8 release date

Don't attack something if you don't know the facts!

I have been in the car business 47 years. The biggest problem we have ever had was unscrupulous dealers. That is no doubt! The other problem is consumers not wanting to remember what they agreed to.

I covered Miami and all of florida for a number of years selling software for F&I. There was no such tinkering available in any programs I know of and it was not necessary. The banks had to change their methods when reg z changed, but any dealer tinkering with the interest to make t come out wrong was and is subject to jail. Any consultant who helped is also subject ot jail. It should be that way!

RIP OFF - I could get real offended and you are not that far!

I and most of the people in my business are super honest, trustworthy and very polite.

Biggest ripoffs I ever ran into were in the computer business, insurance, stocks and bonds. That does no prohibit me from dealing with them, because there are good ones too. Dealers/Salespersons are not at the bottom any more.

I put plenty of protection in my programs in the event I don't get paid. Guess who tries to rip the most? Supposed computer gurus.

Dave Mason

[rfha]

Re: V8 release date

Jeez Dave, nothing personal was intended!

My comments dealt with things as they were in the very early 1980's and what I said was based on fact. I certainly did not say it applied to you or any company you were/are involved with.

As far as protection for programs go, I agree. In that particular case, the dealer concerned was such a shit that I decided, on the spot, that I would rather walk than take one cent from him. Protection of my work had nothing to do with it. My "protection" was in not giving him the work which he tried to con, and threaten, me out of.

If you really want to know what this 'guru', which I am not, did for this jerk, I unlocked a program that a previous programmer had locked up to protect his work - after getting permission of the original programmer to do so in writing - and then simply updated a form layout on a tape which was worn out and required many hours of data recovery.

And, by the way, if a client today -in any industry - acted the way this jerk did, I would do the same thing again. He, in the long run, was the one who lost. I, on the other hand, maintained my integrity - which is worth far more than a few dollars.

Don't be so quick to judge, sir.

[DaveM]

Re: V8 release date

That goes both ways about judging. When I see a customer and a salesman on the lot talking, I can be pretty much assured it is the customer doing the lying if there is any. We have 16 salespeople where I work. 14 are straight but the other 2 will not make it down the stretch. My dealer principle is always straight. Most dealers today, use programs like ADP, Dealer Automation etc. You cannot change anything in those and I know of no dealer who would.

The type operation you describe sounds like a small used car lot with a program that was far outdated. Some of these lots should be closed!

Read federal regulation Z. There is a federal one and then there is the FLorida interpretation. You are in Florida about an hour from me, so it should be appropriate.

Also, No bank will cash an illegal contract. If one slips through and the bank catches it later, they call the dealer for a refund, not the customer.

One other point: Most programmers do NOT know the auto industry or what is legal or not legal. They tend to take the word of someone else. The design and layout of a form can by itself make it ilegal even if all the information is correct.

I did forms nationwide for a F&I program. I do know what was legal on each and how it was supposed to be laid out at that time. My years of experience helped it lot.

So you know. Most dealers are happy(and lucky) if they get a 4% return on their investment after all the bull is done. Thats after investing millions up front.

I am not mad at you.

Dave Mason

[DaveM]

Re: V8 release date

The real use of the wang machine was to more accurately figure the interest and payments. It was just close when doing it out of a book. The insurances were a little off in the book to. The banks were pushing it because the fed was on their neck for the pennies they won or lost on each contract. Did the consumer win or lose? Not really. It was also a dealers way of controlling the way business was done because he actually had one person responsible for the paperwork instead of the salespeople doing it by hand.

We all welcomed the passing of rule of 78.

[smrogers]

Re: V8 release date & Documentation

Tom - your discussion on HOW to use the CHM file is spot on; as a slowly growing Alpha user, I've never seen anything explaining HOW the file should be used properly and thus experience the same problems being discussed when searching for data. Once again, you've lit that bulb over my head!