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Alpha 5 V8 vs MS Visual Web Developer

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    Alpha 5 V8 vs MS Visual Web Developer

    Folks,

    We are trying to decide which tool would work better for us between the Alpha 5 software or the MS Visual Web Developer?

    We are a manufacturing plant that will create databases that will contain much of the data similar to the alphasports database (i.e. customers, inventory, products, invoices, transactions, etc.)

    The application that we will create will need to be accessible from the internet by our clients in order for them to create online specs, invoices, and transactions that will be submitted to our manufacturing plant so that we can build the product.

    We also will need to put a security layer in place to allow certain clients to view specific content that will not be available to everyone else.

    We need to be able to build this application as quick as possible.

    If you have exeperience with both tools (Alpha 5 and Visual Web Developer), which would you recommend for our task and why?

    Thanks,

    Donm

    #2
    Re: Alpha 5 V8 vs MS Visual Web Developer

    No one? Anyone?

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Alpha 5 V8 vs MS Visual Web Developer

      Originally posted by donm1021 View Post
      Folks,

      We are trying to decide which tool would work better for us between the Alpha 5 software or the MS Visual Web Developer?
      Don, you are on an Alpha 5 messageboard... so there may be a natural bias in the answer...

      Originally posted by donm1021 View Post
      We also will need to put a security layer in place to allow certain clients to view specific content that will not be available to everyone else.

      We need to be able to build this application as quick as possible.
      Alpha 5 WAS is a great tool for customer specific websites. I've done this for other clients who have needed exactly this...

      Originally posted by donm1021 View Post
      If you have experience with both tools (Alpha 5 and Visual Web Developer), which would you recommend for our task and why?
      I don't know of anyone with both of those skill sets, so the lack of replies is not unexpected... I personaly have no experience with Visual Web Developer, but I now know how to spell it and can say that I written it.... ;)
      Al Buchholz
      Bookwood Systems, LTD
      Weekly QReportBuilder Webinars Thursday 1 pm CST

      Occam's Razor - KISS
      Normalize till it hurts - De-normalize till it works.
      Advice offered and questions asked in the spirit of learning how to fish is better than someone giving you a fish.
      When we triage a problem it is much easier to read sample systems than to read a mind.
      "Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler."
      Albert Einstein

      http://www.iadn.com/images/media/iadn_member.png

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Alpha 5 V8 vs MS Visual Web Developer

        Don:
        The application you described, as AL said, could be very easily designed with a5.

        The comparison between a5 and Visual Web Developer is one between apples & oranges.

        a5 is an integrated software, meaning, you design your tables, you populate your tables with data and with the web development side, you are able to access your data online.

        On the other hand, Visual Web Developer is only a means to develop a web site, the said web site could access any number of databases data and process them. It only saves you the hassel of learning details of DHTML, Javascript etc.

        In the end, there is not much difference, you will be able to access and process a database. The question then is, what database you wish to access?

        Which one to choose depends on what you want to do with it now and in the foreseeable future.

        If you have a database that you developed and became very proficient in and you simply wish to access it online, there are a myriad of sofwares that could help you do that.

        If you are new to database development, rather than learning 2 programs, I think alpha would be your best bet.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Alpha 5 V8 vs MS Visual Web Developer

          I am lurking on this forum because I have pretty good familiarity with Visual Web Developer but am looking for something to make me more productive. I can tell you that if you are not familiar with VWD, which is primarily just the web development piece of Visual Studio, then there is a steep learning curve for being productive with it. It is actually pretty easy to get started building simple tables, forms, data grids, etc., but to do what you are talking about will force you to delve into some pretty frustrating areas in order to get what you want. OTOH, there is nothing you can't do with VWD. Because it is basically VS, there are tons of 3rd party things to make development faster, and virtually unlimited sources for help. But, like I said, I'm here because most of my clients want a good web database as quickly as possible, and that, in my opinion, is hard to do in VWD compared to A5.

          I tried the demo for Alpha 5 v7 but found it slow, kind of buggy, and somewhat limited (compared to VWD). BUT, I keep coming back because I know if I can get what I want out of it, I will be much more productive. My suggestion would be to work with the v8 demo and start trying to build the app. I think you will know in just a few days whether or not it is right for you. I have no problem in saying that if speed is an important criteria, you're better off with A5.

          Terry

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Alpha 5 V8 vs MS Visual Web Developer

            Terry (and anyone else),

            You can get a good look at the new V8 Web development environment by attending my weekly webinar. Its at noon Pacific Time and you can connect via my website below - click Webinar in the upper right menu area. You can also find it at Alpha Software's website.

            The next webinar is actually on March 28th because I will be out of town next week. If you go to my site and complete the contact information form, I will remind you (or anyone else who wants to attend).

            I try to keep things loose and remain interactive with whoever attends; tailoring the session to your individual needs. Its not a dry lecture, every session is a little different.

            I show several web V7 and V8 applications, and cover many of the new features in V8, including security. I don't gloss over the hard stuff. I try to present a logical progression from Login on through the rest of a typical web application.
            Steve Wood
            See my profile on IADN

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Alpha 5 V8 vs MS Visual Web Developer

              re Terry's comment about speed of web pages in Alpha Five Version 7

              I think you will find that Version 8 is a lot faster

              you can check out some of the samples that ship with Alpha Five running off a server in our office

              http://afas.alphasoftware.com/Sample...6c563d07efcc63

              thanks
              Richard
              Richard Rabins
              Co Chairman
              Alpha Software

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Alpha 5 V8 vs MS Visual Web Developer

                This goes without speaking of the confidence you should gain in knowing that the co-chairman is replying to your question on this forum.
                Go and try to find that kind of attention to a company's product and attention to customer satisfaction on a Microsoft forum. You can't beat the customer care that the Rabins' have graciously afforded the Alpha community over the years!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Alpha 5 V8 vs MS Visual Web Developer

                  I agree with that statement. To have one of the principals care that much about customer service does say a lot. I am also impressed with how actively they improve the product. It hasn't been that long since v7, and yet v8 has many more improvements. The samples are great, the forum is great...BUT...

                  I have been working for the same company for over 20 years. I am getting ready to leave (amicable) due to changes in the company, and I am seriously thinking about starting a consulting/programming business. With regards to using Alpha 5 for my primary development environment, the advantage in my opinion is productivity. This speaks for itself...I can develop applications for customers faster. When you are targeting SMBs, being able to provide an application to them as quickly as possible will save them money, bring their application online faster, and potentially make me valuable in their eyes compared to competitors. This is huge, but their are several disadvantages that bother me also...

                  1) Who is Alpha 5? Now, while I think that a lot of small business owners could care less who Alpha 5 is, there are many that believe that Microsoft is the one and only technology they should be using. I think it is probable that I will be limiting my market by going this direction. A friend pointed out to me that some of these people have been burned in the past by "proprietary" systems...the programmer is no longer around, so who do they go to for help?

                  2) I wonder how many programmers or consulting companies are really successful with using A5...I am trying to replace a decent income, and although I know there are many factors that go into running a successful company, I don't want A5 holding me back because of the perception in the marketplace. There aren't many A5 consultants in my area (NC Triad), which could be good, could be bad...

                  3) 3rd party enhancements- there aren't any that I can tell. I can't choose between several shopping carts for instance...I either have to develop them or use whatever I can find. This concerns me...

                  Anyway, I don't know how to answer these questions without jumping in and trying, but I haven't yet convinced myself to do it. Any comments about my above statements would be welcome, especially the feasibility of running a successful consulting/programming practice with A5. Don't get me wrong...I think A5 has done a great job with this product, and it will probably keep getting better pretty quickly, or at least that is my impression. And notice I didn't say anything about A5 going away. It seems to be getting stronger to me, but I don't think it's going to replace .Net anytime soon. OTOH, it doesn't necessarily need to.

                  Thanks for listening...

                  Terry

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Alpha 5 V8 vs MS Visual Web Developer

                    By the way, why isn't A5's own website and store done in A5?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Alpha 5 V8 vs MS Visual Web Developer

                      By the way, why isn't A5's own website and store done in A5?
                      That is an excellent question that has a very simple answer.
                      1. A5's own website and store could be built in Alpha Five!
                      2. Our web site was initially built BEFORE we had web capabilities built into Alpha Five. Each time we bring out a new version of Alpha Five - we ask ourselves "should we put development resources into making Alpha Five better/faster/easier/more powerful/more innovative or should we divert resources to the web site?" -- up until now we have always opted for improving Alpha Five and not redoing the web site underpinnings. I hope you agree that on balance, that is the right choice.

                      Thanks
                      Richard
                      Last edited by AaronBBrown; 03-19-2007, 05:08 PM.
                      Richard Rabins
                      Co Chairman
                      Alpha Software

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Alpha 5 V8 vs MS Visual Web Developer

                        Who is Alpha 5? Now, while I think that a lot of small business owners could care less who Alpha 5 is, there are many that believe that Microsoft is the one and only technology they should be using. I think it is probable that I will be limiting my market by going this direction. A friend pointed out to me that some of these people have been burned in the past by "proprietary" systems...the programmer is no longer around, so who do they go to for help?
                        1..Are you aware that Microsoft actually wants other company's using their platfrom for developement and are you a good enough salesperson to get that across?

                        2..Are you aware that most people are not aware of what is on their systems and really don't care as long as it does the job?

                        3..I consider myself successful at my company's business and if I devoted more time, could quadruple my current sales. I develope in A5 now after being in many other arenas.

                        4..Most programs developed with microsoft products are not 100% Microsoft.

                        5..I make my exe files with VB, Ftp with whatever, current website is made with a small non-microsoft pagemaker, setup my installs with astrum. Most people do similar.

                        6..Aligning one's self with other capable programmers is a good idea in the event of incapacitation, but who would take over your Microsoft programming if that event happened? I think it would be no different except an A5 programmer could pick it up a lot quicker. I have watched really good programmers walk in to a VB app and make a real mess.

                        Dave
                        Dave Mason
                        [email protected]
                        Skype is dave.mason46

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Alpha 5 V8 vs MS Visual Web Developer

                          Ok here is my problem. I am trying to develop an online database for our company that needs the application developed as quickly as possible.

                          While not a newbie to the web or website design - I am new to RAD and before we payout the almost $1,000 dollars for the Alpha 5 software and Application Server we want to make sure that the software will help us accomplish what we want and also have the help and support to complete the project. (Not asking anyone to do the project just want to know that there is help around if we should need it.)

                          Thanks,

                          Don Miller

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Alpha 5 V8 vs MS Visual Web Developer

                            Don,

                            I do database for the desktop as of now with a5. I got here from clipper, vb, and others. Alpha has always been faster to get going, and if you are striking out on your own, you need that(my humble opinion).

                            I now the support here and that the people on here will go out of their way to help. They have even gone to the point of making the code or project for me and others to show us how. I have done it too. There is NO place you will get that kind of support. Alpha's programmers stop in to help out too.

                            My web projects are down the road, but coming. I would not use anything else because of this kind of support.

                            Dave
                            Dave Mason
                            [email protected]
                            Skype is dave.mason46

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Alpha 5 V8 vs MS Visual Web Developer

                              Don,

                              Why don't you look at the web aplication server section of this forum. You may get a whole lot more insight as to th help you can get.

                              Dave
                              Dave Mason
                              [email protected]
                              Skype is dave.mason46

                              Comment

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