Why second rate controls for A5v8 users?

[rmcgaffic]

I just bought AF8 enterprise because of its "faster than Access" claims and its "improved" form design capabilities. On the latter, I'm a more than a little disappointed.

Why is it that:

Alpha Five itself uses a modern tab object, but relegates an old clunky one to version 8 users?

Alpha Five in the Select database form has two tabs "Databases and tasks" and "News & updates". Please note the left side of the tab is vertical and the right side is slanted, a la MS Office and One Note. If Alpha uses this control, why can't we use it in our own applications? If you thought that you can use the controls you see in AF8 itself, time to think again.

Why is it that:

Alpha Five itself uses a splitter bar which permits the toolbox to be widened or narrowed when you are designing your form.

Why does Alpha not allow us to use a splitter bar on our own forms. Even worse yet, why is it that if we try to use a third party splitter ActiveX control, Alpha Five disables it by requiring that any ActiveX control have both a hortizontal and vertical anchor defeating its very purpose.

Why is it that the scroll bars in a browse can not be disabled?

MS Access has two properties: show/hide vertical scrollbar, show/hide hortizontal scrollbar.

I've run into these problems in only two days using the package.

Can anyone tell me what other similar design inconsistencies exist in Version 8?

PS: In my opinion, AF8 has a fairly respectable visual design. That can not be said of the examples that Alpha Software has posted, which are extremely amateurish. AlphaSports needs a major design makeover. Do you think anyone at Alpha ever read "GUI design for Dummies" ?(Author Laura Arlov available at Amazon.com).

[Tom Cone Jr]

Re: Why second rate controls for AF8 users?

The Features Wishlist forum is available on this message board for folks who wish to suggest enhancements or new features to the developers at Alpha Software.

Personally, I don't find it surprising in the least that they employ some controls and techniques in Alpha Five that are not available to us.

-- tom

[martinwcole]

Re: Why second rate controls for AF8 users?

scroll bars on an embedded browse CAN be hidden - right click on the browse - go to properties - and uncheck what you want

[Marcel Kollenaar]

Re: Why second rate controls for AF8 users?

I just bought AF8 enterprise because of its "faster than Access" claims and its "improved" form design capabilities. On the latter, I'm a more than a little disappointed.......I've run into these problems in only two days using the package.

IMHO, there is a 30 days trial version. You could have saved some money if you downloaded that version.

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: Why second rate controls for AF8 users?

Alpha Five itself uses a modern tab object, but relegates an old clunky one to version 8 users?

Not sure what you are referring to, unless it is your following comment?

Alpha Five in the Select database form has two tabs "Databases and tasks" and "News & updates". Please note the left side of the tab is vertical and the right side is slanted, a la MS Office and One Note. If Alpha uses this control, why can't we use it in our own applications? If you thought that you can use the controls you see in AF8 itself, time to think again.

Ha! I never even noticed that! You have a sharp eye. Sure, why not? They should give us that feature, too.

Alpha Five itself uses a splitter bar which permits the toolbox to be widened or narrowed when you are designing your form.

Why does Alpha not allow us to use a splitter bar on our own forms. Even worse yet, why is it that if we try to use a third party splitter ActiveX control, Alpha Five disables it by requiring that any ActiveX control have both a hortizontal and vertical anchor defeating its very purpose.

Yeah! That would be real nice. Don't know about the AxctiveX, though.

Why is it that the scroll bars in a browse can not be disabled?

MS Access has two properties: show/hide vertical scrollbar, show/hide hortizontal scrollbar.

As Martin pointed out, they can.

I've run into these problems in only two days using the package.

Oh oh... Alpha has lots of little inconsistencies. Some of them drive me nuts at times. But it's still a very good program.

Can anyone tell me what other similar design inconsistencies exist in Version 8?

Like I said, there are any number of these, but all told and said, I think it amounts to small potatoes.

PS: In my opinion, AF8 has a fairly respectable visual design. That can not be said of the examples that Alpha Software has posted, which are extremely amateurish. AlphaSports needs a major design makeover. Do you think anyone at Alpha ever read "GUI design for Dummies" ?(Author Laura Arlov available at Amazon.com).

Ha Ha! That's funny! Alpha just did an "overhaul" for v8. Mostly it's the new look features w. the color gradients which are quite nice (but a little overwhelming for me personally, at this point, to deal with).

I checked out your book on Amazon.com. It's quite dated, actually - circa 1997. Yikes! Maybe that underscores your point? But, in fairness to Alpha, you can pretty much make your app look anyway you like. Check out this link for some exceptional screen shots by a developer:

http://msgboard.alphasoftware.com/al...666#post403666

As is true of any product that people use and like, some people suffer from brand (over) identification and take great offense at any criticism directed at "their" product. My own view is the exact opposite. It's the critics (assuming that it is constructive criticism, of course) that make the product better! So you may find yourself taking some heat from some of the people on this board, but don't let it bother you. When a product gets a lot of complaints & criticism in a certain area, they will usually address that arena and improve it. Democracy in action I say! Vote with your pocket book and with your communication skills.

In summary, Alpha is a very powerful & flexible relational db with very strong web capabilities. It's hardly perfect, but I like it a lot.

[rmcgaffic]

Re: Why second rate controls for AF8 users?

Peter,

Thanks for your insights. There are several good books on good gui design on Amazon.com, and I picked GUI for Dummies to show that these principles are anything but new, and are really mainstream if a Dummies book has been published on them.

As one observer noted, I could have saved the purchase price of Enterprise, by downloading the trail version first. As a matter of fact, I did exactly that. I just didn't look carefully enough, and was mislead by all there promotional copy about offering a modern GUI. My mistake.

I have no doubt about two things:
AF8 is a capable package
Alpha Software is "design blind" and seems incapable of creating demo applications that show how the package off to its best advantage.

If you compare Alpha Sports and all the other demo applications with the templates found in Microsoft Access 2007, Alpha does not come close. Its demo applications look like they were written by a 10th grader. This is not a criticism of AF8, just the examples Alpha is pushing.

Hasn't the AF developer community done more impressive work that Alpha could display? If you want further examples consider these:

1. Servoy.com (billing iteself as an Alpha Five alternative)
The applications shown there are breath takingly
beautiful.
2. Any MS Access 2007 template.
3. Intuit's Customer service manager from the Quicken, Turbo Tax folks.

I am interested in not only developing small applications more quickly, but that have a fit and finish that rivals commercial packages.

Bob

[russ Boehle]

Re: Why second rate controls for AF8 users?

Some of the Servoy samples are quite nice, others about the same as Alpha samples.

I agree Alpha could use the help at times of a good graphic designer, but I think the emphasis has been on getting out a good app that is technically capable, and can do what the designers want with minimal coding. Maybe when that is done (is that a word?) they can sit back and let a graphics person do stuff with it. Personally I think the direction they are going is fine.

Yes, I have some gripes, but overall I think Alpha 5v8 is perfect for what I need to do, namely to quickly make networkable apps that are multi user and have the functionality that we need for the business processes that are critical to us. Maybe our apps aren't too pretty, as I personally have no style sense whatsoever (as my wife reminds me) but they get the job done, and I can develop fairly quickly with a minimum of coding, which I am not very good at.

I'll take functionality over pretty any day, but I understand that for web apps, pretty can make of break the app.

Russ

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: Why second rate controls for AF8 users?

Bob,

One comment: Servoy seems to be much like Iron Speed Designer, which is a very powerful frontend for databases like MS SQL Server or Oracle. It's not a db itself. So the comparison is not entirely valid. But I agree, they have visually stunning application examples.

[G Gabriel]

Re: Why second rate controls for AF8 users?

Robert:
You started your thread asking a lot of "Why" questions. You would have been much better off asking "How" instead. You must have come to the conclusion that if you couldn't do it then it cannot be done!
Not so.

[rmcgaffic]

Re: Why second rate controls for AF8 users?

Gabriel,

Sorry for the phrasing of my comments. I certainly did not mean to suggest that if I couldn't do it, it couldn't be done. Please note that I prefaced my comments by admitting being new to AF8.

But I am very intrigued by your comment of "Not so". Would you please share with this forum your work around that will:

1. Allow a third party activeX splitter control (I use FMS splitter in my Access 2000/2003 applicaitons) to be placed on a AF8 form and select that the anchors can be either left/right or top/bottom. Right now I can't figure a way around the requirement to anchor both a vertical dimension and a horizontal dimension.

2. Where is the property setting for being able to use a tab control on my application form that looks as good as the one that AF8 uses itself (appearance of MS Office 2007/One note).

Thanks for your help,
Bob

[Tom Cone Jr]

Re: Why second rate controls for AF8 users?

Robert,

You're not under any obligation of course, but I see that nothing new has been added to the Features Wishlist forum concerning the things you'd like to be able to do or use which aren't currently included. It's probably because I have such low standards in these things but the items you're annoyed about aren't a source of concern to me. However, they sound like they would be terrific enhancements to the current package. So, I write to encourage you again to post your recommendations in the Features Wishlist forum so that they will receive the attention there they deserve.

Regards,

-- tom

[G Gabriel]

Re: Why second rate controls for AF8 users?

Bob:
To your first question:
No need for an Activex, you could do it with alpha. Very simple. See the attached example: open the form "Unique".

This is a test DB I used in response to other threads, there are a lot of other irrelevant items, please ignore. Just trying to give you a quick example.

When it comes to Activex, that's Marcel Koolnar's department. I am sure he could whip something up for you. Remeber, not every Activex is included in alpha, BUT, you can import any one you want.

I will get you an example for the 2nd question soon.

[forskare]

Re: Why second rate controls for AF8 users?

Why is it that:

Alpha Five itself uses a splitter bar which permits the toolbox to be widened or narrowed when you are designing your form.

Why does Alpha not allow us to use a splitter bar on our own forms. Even worse yet, why is it that if we try to use a third party splitter ActiveX control, Alpha Five disables it by requiring that any ActiveX control have both a hortizontal and vertical anchor defeating its very purpose.

Hi Bob,

Don't know why you can't see the 'splitter'. I have 2 embedded browses on a form and can use the splitter in view mode. If you place the cursor in the fall left side of the browse, the splitter appears.

kenn

[G Gabriel]

Re: Why second rate controls for AF8 users?

Open "Tab" form.
..of course this could be made to look and behave much better, it's just a quick example to give you the idea..

[G Gabriel]

Re: Why second rate controls for AF8 users?

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