"Alpha Five" What Programing Language

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: "Alpha Five" What Programing Language

And good question by the way smrogers, hearing that alpha will retain their name on a commercially developed software wasnt good news to me.

I know Alpha has come quite a ways with respect to getting rid of their name within the system (of course, that must kill them to do that). But, I think, in some places it's so deeply buried in the code they have had a hard time even getting their fingers on it. Now, on the other hand, if you asked me where exactly does the A5 name pop up where you can't get rid of it, I couldn't tell you off the top of my head. But, I'm pretty sure it's still there in certain places.

[DaveM]

Re: "Alpha Five" What Programing Language

NigelDude,

I just ran into the same question from a client last week and more.

Question: What is you program made of and how.

Answer I gave: Xbasic programming with Alpha Five GUI. I use the most standard dbase files like foxpro and many other well known programs. Why do you ask?

response from customer: I wanted to know so I could be sure I could mail merge with word to make cards, letters and so forth.

Answer from me: You won't be able to do that because all the data is secured as it would be with any language I would use. I can write any that you want for a small fee that would probably be no more than the cost to do it in-house.

customer: I also wanted to be able to have it reworked in case I could not get you.

me: It would not matter if I wrote it with xbasic, c++ or VB. You would have to hire a programmer to redo it and they would only rewrite not modify it as I would. Most all programs are fully open only to the original programmer.


I GOT THE CONTRACT!!!

Dave

[nigeldude]

Re: "Alpha Five" What Programing Language

AWESOME!

[DaveM]

Re: "Alpha Five" What Programing Language

Forgot to ask. Anybody know anything about writing a payroll program???

LOL

Dave

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: "Alpha Five" What Programing Language

Dave,

Friendly suggestion: you might want to pose this question in a new thread - to get specific response.

[Doug Page]

Re: "Alpha Five" What Programing Language

I think that trying to hide Alpha Five is going to be next to impossible. Create a shortcut for a runtime app, right click and check out the properties - the executable is Alpha5.exe. A quick Google and guess what you find. For me, I like to think of Alpha Five as a rapid development environment. It allows you to use a programming language (XBasic), a Form creation tool (XDialog), a report writer, ADO or ODBC connections to all the major DBs, OLE to exchange data with other applications, etc. And of course rapid development is something that most clients like to hear. I wouldn't be afraid to tell someone about Alpha Five. On the contrary, I would say it out loud. Use it as a huge benefit to them - rapid development, uses industry recognized database formats - not proprietary, desktop and web enabled applications, etc. If you are worried about them trying to hire another Alpha Five programmer, you can always ask them out of all the people who drive cars, how many can drive them really well - or some other analogy. Most of all, if you want to get the contract, it's not Alpha Five that is important - it's you.

[DaveM]

Re: "Alpha Five" What Programing Language

I think that trying to hide Alpha Five is going to be next to impossible. Create a shortcut for a runtime app, right click and check out the properties - the executable is Alpha5.exe. A quick Google and guess what you find. 
 rapid development is something that most clients like to hear.    Most of all, if you want to get the contract, it's not Alpha Five that is important - it's you.

I can 99% take Alpha5 out of the app and it does NOT show up in my shortcut anymore. Neither do the switches after the exe. You do NOT see Alpha5.exe at all.

YES - rapid developement

It is always the salesperson FIRST!

Dave

[Marcel Kollenaar]

Re: "Alpha Five" What Programing Language

In xbasic, which is a proprietor alphasoftware language. No other software is written in xbasic (There is a different xbasic language and right now I don't remember the difference).

Max Reason wrote his 'XBasic'. The difference is that it is not part of a database environment. It is a basic dialect that compiles to exe files. He developed it for his own work. XBasic is entirely written in XBasic except for a core which is written in assembler.

[sicomputerguy]

Re: "Alpha Five" What Programing Language

Wouldn't Alpha be considered somewhat of a 4GL language or database?

As per Wikipedia:

"All 4GLs are designed to reduce programming effort, the time it takes to develop software, and the cost of software development."

[John Gamble]

Re: "Alpha Five" What Programing Language

Wouldn't Alpha be considered somewhat of a 4GL language or database?

As per Wikipedia:

"All 4GLs are designed to reduce programming effort, the time it takes to develop software, and the cost of software development."

.

4 th generation languages were the buzzword of the 80's. eg. Quiz, Quick, QTP for HP Minis (circa 1980).

Surely Alpha 5 deserves billing as at least a 5 th or 6 th generation language.

John

[Steve Wood]

Re: "Alpha Five" What Programing Language

Couple thoughts I had: DaveM is absolutely right, you always ask "why do you ask,...what do you mean by that,...why is it important...?". A common question is "is it true client/server?" by which they often mean can they install it on a server and have multiple users bang on it at the same time. Guys like us are always thinking in rigid technical terms, wanting to provide a technically accurate answer. And that's not what most non-technical customers are asking.

I would never hide that it's Alpha Five. It sets you up for hiding the fact throughout your career, and you will seek excuses rather than developing and believing supportable reasons WHY IT IS Alpha. Heck, why would they want an application in C++? Sure C++ or Access programmers charge 1/2 what an Alpha consultant can get, but all you get is a software application. With Alpha, you get a software application and ALL THIS for free (fill in the massive list of user-accessible tools such as Excel export, Word merge, web applications, etc. and a huge capability to expand the software application. And, (despite what Dave said about this - he was referring to a commercial program model) the ability for the customer to tweak the application (if given that permission) and, with far less training than you would need for C++, enhance your application on your own.

I go the other direction. My company name even has "Alpha" in it! I show them what they are buying in to -- the vast resources, miles of features, even this user's forum. I always tell clients they can expand their application on their own; most of them express that they want to (thinking its a cost-savings hedge). Some of them can, but most come back to me for assistance. I would not be able to keep a straight face if I faked it and said it was something other than what it is.

So if they ask, I can't just say "its a RDBMS with dBase compatible tables", or something like that. Because it so much more than its technical description. Its a "complete software development framework using standard non-proprietary dBase data tables..." see I won't even be able to get there. You'll never get a complete definition because the person asking the question mostly needs assurance and a few facts, not a definition.

[Marcel Kollenaar]

Re: "Alpha Five" What Programing Language

Don't forget to mention that Alpha Five is also a very convenient Frontend Interface Builder.

[DaveM]

Re: "Alpha Five" What Programing Language

As Steve said in so many words: Each of us has had different experiences with customers and each will attract and be able to sell different customers. I could probably never sell his customers or keep them happy.


KISS is important to me. I personally do NOT want somebody messing with what it took me hours and days to get right. Alpha is built such that if i send an update that has .ddd .ddm .ddx etc., it will overwrite whatever changes they made anyway. Why let them have a small sense of security to be blasted later when they go to version 7.38205 of my software and all their tweaking is gone? My software is written for a different audience than Steve's, I bet. I may not live close enough to come around and help every little cough, and I would rather teach and make sure they can run what I made than teach programming. I cater to car sales people/dealerships and they just want to push the button. Maybe that explains better than all the other I just typed.

I don't know any of my friends who write c++, Visual Basic who could do what I do for less or even the same. I know none anywhere that don't code by KISS. I believe that without source code and compiler(very expensive usually), it would be very hard to tinker with c++ or visual basic. Does anybody want to learn to use report writer? You would need to be real good at report writer to get anywhere(also very expensive). I would see no reason for anybody to want an app in access??? The inclosed database turned me off from the beginning and I never recovered.
We wrote a VB database that used an mdb file that end users were opening with access and creating all sorts of havoc. Later it was switched to sql.

I never hide Alpha5! That would not be in my best interest or my customer's. I do not believe it is necessary to blast Alpha5 out on every page of the app I make with it. That can get confusing. My company name and phone number may be more important to the end user. Alpha may be happier that an end user is not calling them for support on an application issue too.

Dave

[martinwcole]

Re: "Alpha Five" What Programing Language

I always say, "I use a C-based language called Alpha." I've never had a client complain.

For the record, I've been making a living - i.e., my primary source of income is from programming for clients using Alpha - with Alpha since 1998. And most of my income has come from clients who came to me with Access, but could not do what they needed with it.

As far as writing a slick, full blown application in C++ - you have got to be kidding!! It would take at a minimum 10 times longer!!

Actually, as I think about it, I did have one client protest once. I was approached by a hospital chain to write a very complicated app for their Respiratory Care department. When the department approached upper management, upper management said we prefer to use sequel and a bigger software shop for something like that. So they went to their source and asked how long it would take and cost to develop the app. About 5 minutes later, they called me back, and approved the project. It has been running 24/7 for going on 5 years.

[Steve Wood]

Re: "Alpha Five" What Programing Language

Dave - yes different audience. I do write to one vertical market, and there I do exactly what you do - covered by annual support, no client access to the code, no overt mention of Alpha (because it would not matter). But mostly I am all over the map and going after clients with a previous knowledge and some appreciation of Alpha Five. Coming only recently to the Alpha world, it seemed like the fastest way to gather up new clients. Works, but it also takes way too much energy to be so spread out, so I will probably gravitate to a more narrow focus over time.