Renaming tables and sets

[dodgebros]

I want to rename two tables and a set based on the two tables. Whenever I do this the form based on the set disappears. What is the correct way to do this?

Thanks,
TD

[Stan Mathews]

Re: Renaming tables and sets

I want to rename two tables and a set based on the two tables. Whenever I do this the form based on the set disappears. What is the correct way to do this?

Thanks,
TD

I can think of several ways to do this so I don't know which you tried.

Right click on one of the table names in the control panel, choose Rename.
right click on the set name in the control panel, choose Edit set, you should be prompted to locate the renamed table
Do so
Repeat above for second table in set
Right click on the set name in the control panel, choose Rename

[Tom Cone Jr]

Re: Renaming tables and sets

The wrong way to do it is to use Windows Explorer and rename the table outside of Alpha Five.

[davej]

Re: Renaming tables and sets

TD,

I just did what you are asking about. I renamed a table in the Control Panel and when I clicked on the Forms tab, the table name on which the forms are based was changed. Same for renaming a set.

If you are trying to rename a table or set from outside Alpha as Tom says, you are asking for trouble - unless you really know what you are doing - and even then you are tempting Mother Nature to bite you.

Dave

[dodgebros]

Re: Renaming tables and sets

I can think of several ways to do this so I don't know which you tried.

Right click on one of the table names in the control panel, choose Rename.
right click on the set name in the control panel, choose Edit set, you should be prompted to locate the renamed table
Do so
Repeat above for second table in set
Right click on the set name in the control panel, choose Rename

I did as you said, renamed a table then right clicked on the set, selected edit set, then a form appears titled "Table Could Not Be found". Here I selected the table with the new name, clicked on Open and it justs goes back to the same form titled "Table Could Not Be found". What do I do now?

Thanks,
TD

[CALocklin]

Re: Renaming tables and sets

I did as you said, renamed a table then right clicked on the set, selected edit set, then a form appears titled "Table Could Not Be found".

This is what I've seen also. (Although I can't swear I've ever tried it in v8.)

Renaming tables that are used in a set can be a problem. I've only found one basic method that is successful but the way it is applied depends on whether or not the name of the parent table is being changed. Basically, you have to build a second copy of each table with the new name and rebuild the set using the new tables. (Hint: The more details you give about your problem - in this case, are you changing only child table names or also the parent table name - (a) the better your answer will be and (b) the less time we will have to spend guessing what you need.)

First, understand that the set has the table names "embedded" in it. You cannot rename the existing tables and expect the set to be able to find the new names. (At least not in my experience.) And, since the fields on the forms are related to the tables, the fields will also have to be changed to point to the same field in the new table.

If you are NOT changing the name of the parent table:
- DO NOT CHANGE THE NAME OF ANY CHILD TABLES INITIALLY.
- Duplicate any tables that need to be renamed - and assign them the new name, of course. Be sure to also duplicate the data, indexes, field rules, data dictionaries, and anything else you can duplicate.
- Add the new tables to the existing set linked to the parent table the same way that the original tables were linked.
- NOW, delete the original tables from the set. (I DO recommend you have a backup of the originals and I DON'T recommend deleting the original tables themselves until all sets have been rebuilt and all layouts have been updated - see below.)

Since this did not require you to delete the set, your existing forms and other layouts should still be attached but you should open each one and fix any field references that are no longer valid. (Yes, this could be a long and painful process.)

If you ARE changing the name of the parent table, things get much nastier. In this case, I believe you need to build a completely new set. HOWEVER, do not delete the original set or any of the original tables until after the new set is built and all layouts, operations, etc. have been copied to the new set. (The difference between this situation and the one above is that, while you can delete child tables in a set, you cannot delete or edit the parent table of a set.)
- Duplicate all new tables as mentioned above.
- Create a new set using the new tables. (and, of course, any old ones where the name is not being changed.)
- Go to the various tabs on the control panel, set the view mode to show details so you can see which set the layouts are attached to and use the "Copy to..." option to copy the layouts (and any operations that are attached to the set) from the old set to the new set.
- Open each one and fix any field references that are no longer valid.
- Delete the original set and any of the original tables that were renamed AFTER everything has been updated. (Or you can delete them if you have another copy of the original app that can be used as needed to verify changes or to see how something was done originally.)

I'm not sure why you are doing this but if it's because of bad naming initially, (a) is it really worth the effort and (b) this is a good reason to read and heed the warnings/suggestions on this message board about good naming conventions. My personal recommendations are located in my naming recommendations web page. Note that while I (and some others) will recommend my naming conventions, I really don't care exactly what naming convention you decide to use - it's the logic behind my naming convention that is important. And, although nobody has disagreed with my basic logic, some use different naming conventions. (Although once you use my specific naming conventions for awhile you will begin to see how easy and efficient it really is - even if some of it appears rather strange or unnecessary at first.) Remember too, just because "I like it that way" or "I'm used to this method" doesn't mean it will be appropriate for an Alpha Five database. Personally, I like the naming method that has become fairly standard for Access and would recommend its use in A5 EXCEPT for the fact that this method isn't at all appropriate in A5 for many reasons as I explain in my naming recommendations page. And, FWIW, when a group of experienced developers were asked what was the most important thing to be covered in the session about "how to" or "hints and tips" at the conference in Las Vegas a few weeks ago (sorry, I forget what the name of the session was but it was one of the first sessions), every one of those developers immediately said "naming conventions" - it's that important.

[dodgebros]

Re: Renaming tables and sets

This is what I've seen also. (Although I can't swear I've ever tried it in v8.)

Renaming tables that are used in a set can be a problem. I've only found one basic method that is successful but the way it is applied depends on whether or not the name of the parent table is being changed. Basically, you have to build a second copy of each table with the new name and rebuild the set using the new tables. (Hint: The more details you give about your problem - in this case, are you changing only child table names or also the parent table name - (a) the better your answer will be and (b) the less time we will have to spend guessing what you need.)

First, understand that the set has the table names "embedded" in it. You cannot rename the existing tables and expect the set to be able to find the new names. (At least not in my experience.) And, since the fields on the forms are related to the tables, the fields will also have to be changed to point to the same field in the new table.

If you are NOT changing the name of the parent table:
- DO NOT CHANGE THE NAME OF ANY CHILD TABLES INITIALLY.
- Duplicate any tables that need to be renamed - and assign them the new name, of course. Be sure to also duplicate the data, indexes, field rules, data dictionaries, and anything else you can duplicate.
- Add the new tables to the existing set linked to the parent table the same way that the original tables were linked.
- NOW, delete the original tables from the set. (I DO recommend you have a backup of the originals and I DON'T recommend deleting the original tables themselves until all sets have been rebuilt and all layouts have been updated - see below.)

Since this did not require you to delete the set, your existing forms and other layouts should still be attached but you should open each one and fix any field references that are no longer valid. (Yes, this could be a long and painful process.)

If you ARE changing the name of the parent table, things get much nastier. In this case, I believe you need to build a completely new set. HOWEVER, do not delete the original set or any of the original tables until after the new set is built and all layouts, operations, etc. have been copied to the new set. (The difference between this situation and the one above is that, while you can delete child tables in a set, you cannot delete or edit the parent table of a set.)
- Duplicate all new tables as mentioned above.
- Create a new set using the new tables. (and, of course, any old ones where the name is not being changed.)
- Go to the various tabs on the control panel, set the view mode to show details so you can see which set the layouts are attached to and use the "Copy to..." option to copy the layouts (and any operations that are attached to the set) from the old set to the new set.
- Open each one and fix any field references that are no longer valid.
- Delete the original set and any of the original tables that were renamed AFTER everything has been updated. (Or you can delete them if you have another copy of the original app that can be used as needed to verify changes or to see how something was done originally.)

I'm not sure why you are doing this but if it's because of bad naming initially, (a) is it really worth the effort and (b) this is a good reason to read and heed the warnings/suggestions on this message board about good naming conventions. My personal recommendations are located in my naming recommendations web page. Note that while I (and some others) will recommend my naming conventions, I really don't care exactly what naming convention you decide to use - it's the logic behind my naming convention that is important. And, although nobody has disagreed with my basic logic, some use different naming conventions. (Although once you use my specific naming conventions for awhile you will begin to see how easy and efficient it really is - even if some of it appears rather strange or unnecessary at first.) Remember too, just because "I like it that way" or "I'm used to this method" doesn't mean it will be appropriate for an Alpha Five database. Personally, I like the naming method that has become fairly standard for Access and would recommend its use in A5 EXCEPT for the fact that this method isn't at all appropriate in A5 for many reasons as I explain in my naming recommendations page. And, FWIW, when a group of experienced developers were asked what was the most important thing to be covered in the session about "how to" or "hints and tips" at the conference in Las Vegas a few weeks ago (sorry, I forget what the name of the session was but it was one of the first sessions), every one of those developers immediately said "naming conventions" - it's that important.

Thanks for the detailed explanation! I realize I should have given more detail but time was a factor. Yes, I am renaming all the tables, parent and child. The reason being I am coming to A5 from MS Access and I am accustom to using the naming convention used there. BUT, A5 capitalizes the first letter of the table name so it looks like TblName vs tblName. Soooo, I decided to rename everything and discovered it's almost impossible to do. I will try your method and report back.

I am very concerned that A5, unlike MS Access, has no means to import tables, forms, or reports from other A5 databases. This is a big drawback in my mind for A5.

Thanks,
TD

[Stan Mathews]

Re: Renaming tables and sets

I am very concerned that A5, unlike MS Access, has no means to import tables, forms, or reports from other A5 databases.

Not sure what you mean. If you want to use the same tables in more than one database, simply add them to the second, third, whatever database (right click in tables/sets tab of controlpanel, Add table/set, navigate to their location.) Maintenance issues and exclusive access issues may arise.

If you want to use the same table in a second database but only the structure, layouts, etc, right click on the table name in the tables/sets tab of the original database, choose Duplicate, navigate to the new location, choose the appropriate options, then drop the duplicate from the original. You could also use explorer to copy the files to the new database location and add them to it but you must copy all the files with the "table" name (.dbf, .ddd, .ddx, .cdx, etc).

If you want to copy a layout (report, form, browse, letter, label) from one database to another, that is very simple.

A thousand humble pardons if I misunderstand but it seems as if you know a lot about Access, a little about Alpha, and think Alpha is lacking because Alpha doesn't do things the way Access does. What would be the point in that? Have you discovered the online webhelp? The link to the instructions about copying a report to another database was easily found in the index with the search term Report. Copy to another database is a sub section.

When in doubt, right click.

[DaveM]

Re: Renaming tables and sets

TD,

May I get into this?

I tried the change name and found it hard to get it right. The old way was:

Open control panel:

click on a table you want to change, right click, choose utilities, duplicate, choose new name(however you want it) and it will be within the database you are using and keep the forms/reports/data/etc.

Make a new set(however you want to name it) that matches your old one.

Go to the forms, right click on a form attached to your old set, choose copy to, choose your new set. That will get it over for you. Do the same with anyother layouts/scripts/etc you need to move.

You can then go through and get rid of the old stuff or delete the set and old tables. Make sure you keep a backup til you are complete.

You will be a lot happier in Alpha once you get these basics out of the way.

Dave

[dodgebros]

Re: Renaming tables and sets

Thanks for the help Dave, that did it after I reconfigured a dropdown box in the form to use the new table. Yes Stan, I know a lot about MS Access and very little about A5. Please don't take my comments as a dislike for A5, just growing pains as I learn the ways of A5. I purchased A5 in hopes of creating canned software to sell on the Internet and I'm hoping I made the right choice.

Thanks again to everyone who post a response!!!
TD

[DaveM]

Re: Renaming tables and sets

TD,

You can do it! Several on here sell software on and off the webb. It does can pretty well. Maybe a commercial installer?, and a few other tools will help you. I use Astrum, Make my own .exe with vb( cause I have it), and ftp it to my site. Mine is also sold on CD by reps at the site now. That is more successful for my program.

The people on here will help you all the way. I really think that any 10 people on here with a year or more a5 will 100% get the job done, but there may be 8 different ways it gets done.

I see your job as asking/searching you methods and choosing the one best for you.

Dave Mason
www.lotrun.com

[dodgebros]

Re: Renaming tables and sets

TD,

You can do it! Several on here sell software on and off the webb. It does can pretty well. Maybe a commercial installer?, and a few other tools will help you. I use Astrum, Make my own .exe with vb( cause I have it), and ftp it to my site. Mine is also sold on CD by reps at the site now. That is more successful for my program.

The people on here will help you all the way. I really think that any 10 people on here with a year or more a5 will 100% get the job done, but there may be 8 different ways it gets done.

I see your job as asking/searching you methods and choosing the one best for you.

Dave Mason
www.lotrun.com

Thanks Dave for the encouragement! I'm sure I'll have many questions shortly...
TD