Re: Anyone familiar with converting a Front Page built web to WAS ???
Pardon me for jumping in at this late date and not even helping with the specific question(s?) but you touched on a common issue that often causes problems between customers and database developers. (It's more of an issue for paying customers vs. developers than beginning developers vs. experienced developers but the basic situation is often the same.)
Please, don't anyone take this personally. It's not aimed at anyone - especially those posting on this thread because I didn't even read it carefully enough to know your level of expertise - but rather just a comment about a general "truth" I've discovered. Maybe it will help new users understand where the experienced users are coming from and vice versa.
All I'm trying to do is ...
Every time I hear this from a customer or prospective customer I cringe. Why? Because I KNOW that the next thing out of their mouth is probably going to be a "simple" request that will only take me a few days or weeks to work out. It won't be the $50 job they were expecting and probably not even a $500 job.
However, when I hear:
I know this is probably difficult BUT ...
It's almost an absolute guarantee that I can make this person very happy in just a few minutes. (The big issue I have to contend with is, "Do I charge him what he expects or just for the actual time it takes?" So far I've been honest.) My best example of this was the time someone came to me and was very apologetic about the trouble it would cause but he wondered if I could possibly move a button on his custom app from the lower left corner to the lower right. It was tempting to say I would 'only' charge $200 but I was honest and did it for no charge.
I don't know exactly why this seems to be so true but I've run into it time after time after time. The new user always seems to think that the easy things are hard and the hard things are easy.
I think sometimes it's because they've been able to get so far with A5 with very little effort. This makes them think they must just be missing something simple. Unfortunately for them, they often aren't missing something simple because there is no simple solution. In some of the worst cases, the solution is to go back and fix much of what they already did because the structure that was working "so far" wasn't really correct and is part of the reason they can't find a way to solve their next issue.
Again, please don't take offense at this but I compare some new developers a guy who say's "It's just an airplane" and then decides to design and build a supersonic transport with no previous experience. Most people wouldn't try to do that with an airplane but for some reason they seem to think they can do it with a database. After all, they can work with word processors and spreadsheets so what can be so difficult about a database? If you've never build a database application before, don't jump in to something complex like "I'll build something to run my whole business" until you've designed a few smaller apps first. Start by spending some quality time with the example apps then try building something simple like your own contact manager FROM SCRATCH. That way you'll really learn. (Copying an existing application doesn't count. You can study what someone else did but then do it on your own without ever checking to see what was in the sample app.) Then build something a little more complicated and work your way up.
You can do a lot with A5 in a short time but don't expect to become an expert in 2-3 months. I wrote my first computer program in 1967, I've been building databases since about 1989, databases for clients since about 1992, and doing it full time since 2001 - and still almost every day I (a) learn something new and (b) run into some new gotcha that I've never seen before. You'll also note that I never mentioned the term "expert" here. There are many people who know a lot about various aspects of A5 (or anything else for that matter) but nobody who actually knows it all. If you find a developer who thinks he does, go find someone else real fast.
FINALLY, don't take this as any indication that you shouldn't try something or ask questions here. Just be aware that what you think should be easy might not be so easy and don't get offended or think someone is cheating you if an experienced developer says otherwise.
Pardon me for jumping in at this late date and not even helping with the specific question(s?) but you touched on a common issue that often causes problems between customers and database developers. (It's more of an issue for paying customers vs. developers than beginning developers vs. experienced developers but the basic situation is often the same.)
Please, don't anyone take this personally. It's not aimed at anyone - especially those posting on this thread because I didn't even read it carefully enough to know your level of expertise - but rather just a comment about a general "truth" I've discovered. Maybe it will help new users understand where the experienced users are coming from and vice versa.
All I'm trying to do is ...
Every time I hear this from a customer or prospective customer I cringe. Why? Because I KNOW that the next thing out of their mouth is probably going to be a "simple" request that will only take me a few days or weeks to work out. It won't be the $50 job they were expecting and probably not even a $500 job.
However, when I hear:
I know this is probably difficult BUT ...
It's almost an absolute guarantee that I can make this person very happy in just a few minutes. (The big issue I have to contend with is, "Do I charge him what he expects or just for the actual time it takes?" So far I've been honest.) My best example of this was the time someone came to me and was very apologetic about the trouble it would cause but he wondered if I could possibly move a button on his custom app from the lower left corner to the lower right. It was tempting to say I would 'only' charge $200 but I was honest and did it for no charge.
I don't know exactly why this seems to be so true but I've run into it time after time after time. The new user always seems to think that the easy things are hard and the hard things are easy.
I think sometimes it's because they've been able to get so far with A5 with very little effort. This makes them think they must just be missing something simple. Unfortunately for them, they often aren't missing something simple because there is no simple solution. In some of the worst cases, the solution is to go back and fix much of what they already did because the structure that was working "so far" wasn't really correct and is part of the reason they can't find a way to solve their next issue.
Again, please don't take offense at this but I compare some new developers a guy who say's "It's just an airplane" and then decides to design and build a supersonic transport with no previous experience. Most people wouldn't try to do that with an airplane but for some reason they seem to think they can do it with a database. After all, they can work with word processors and spreadsheets so what can be so difficult about a database? If you've never build a database application before, don't jump in to something complex like "I'll build something to run my whole business" until you've designed a few smaller apps first. Start by spending some quality time with the example apps then try building something simple like your own contact manager FROM SCRATCH. That way you'll really learn. (Copying an existing application doesn't count. You can study what someone else did but then do it on your own without ever checking to see what was in the sample app.) Then build something a little more complicated and work your way up.
You can do a lot with A5 in a short time but don't expect to become an expert in 2-3 months. I wrote my first computer program in 1967, I've been building databases since about 1989, databases for clients since about 1992, and doing it full time since 2001 - and still almost every day I (a) learn something new and (b) run into some new gotcha that I've never seen before. You'll also note that I never mentioned the term "expert" here. There are many people who know a lot about various aspects of A5 (or anything else for that matter) but nobody who actually knows it all. If you find a developer who thinks he does, go find someone else real fast.
FINALLY, don't take this as any indication that you shouldn't try something or ask questions here. Just be aware that what you think should be easy might not be so easy and don't get offended or think someone is cheating you if an experienced developer says otherwise.
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