am starting complete dealer f&i system

[DaveM]

To all,

Thanks for past help in my endeavors and any future help.

I definitely know the car business better than programming, but see a need for a good f&i system. The biggest provider for smaller lots has gone under(Manheim sold it). I helped devlope some of it(mainly with ideas). The second largest is straining for share, but is run very badly(I wrote parts of this one and guided the BHPH part). The big boys(three of them) cost over a million to start up so only the major dealers can afford it. At different times I sold, installed and trained this last system.

I have a great start on a full blown f&i system by using my current app. That being said, I will also need a lot of help if I want to complete this in the next 6 months to a year.

I have inventory, sales, followup and so forth already built in a current package. I will need to add payroll(which I am 2/3s done with, a full blown GL accounting system with reports(hoping someone has one useable), parts and service. Will need a credit reporting and getting module too. I also still have to setup payments ability for the buy here pay here comunity.

This will about triple the size of my current main app.

What do you have that I can use? Money is always an object.

Dave Mason

[Bill Broyles]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

Why wouldn't you use Quickbooks for the accounting part? Doesn't A5 hook in, or use an addin for that?

Just curious why you would reinvent the wheel? Or is it that Quickbooks isn't reliable?

Good luck, this sounds like a winner.

[jkletrovets]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

Dave

I would tend to agree with Bill. I think it would be a non-ending task (read Pain in the butt) to try and keep up with Payroll tax changes, etc. Without knowing a lot more about your application it is hard to say - but Quickbooks Enterprise Edition should work for small to medium sized businesses and it won't break the bank.

With the demo Al put on at the last Alpha Developers Conference in Vegas showing the power of QODBC - it is possible to build VERY tight integration between an Alpha App and Quickbooks.

Regards,

Jeff

[DaveM]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

Have tried this in the past with other programs (vb for one). It all works great until a new version of quikbooks comes out. NO I will not do a tie in to quickbooks.

I am not re-inventing anything. Accounting is still accounting. You do not see major dealerships using quickbooks. I need a full accounting package with balance sheets, ledgers, and other abilities not even close in quickbooks.

Please don't try to change the mind, it is set on this point.

By the way, there are MUCH better accounting packages out than quickbooks. I wish to have one I can code to or change as needed for specific purpose(s).

I wrote and sold a VERY good payroll package in V4. it was much better than anything i have seen to date. I can't find it now, but remember howw I did it.

Dave

[Melvin Davidson]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

What do you have that I can use?

Dave,

I think the real question is, what do you need?

I personally don't know what you mean when you refer to an f&i system, nor does BHPH have any significance for me. Abbreviations have different meanings to different people. If I said I needed a CAD system, would you think I meant "Computer Aided Design" or "Computer Aided Dispatch"?

You have stated what you have. Just be specific about what you need and we can possibly help.

Best of luck,
Melvin

[Steve Workings]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

See attached pic. Started this in '97 and still working on it. Good luck getting yours done in a year!

[jkletrovets]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

Dave wrote - You do not see major dealerships using quickbooks. I need a full accounting package with balance sheets, ledgers, and other abilities not even close in quickbooks.

I guess rightly or wrongly so, I inferred the major dealers were not the ones you were going after. Since in your first post you wrote:

Dave wrote - The big boys(three of them) cost over a million to start up so only the major dealers can afford it.

Not trying to change your mind at all on Quickbooks. Just pointing out the integration option in case you were unaware of it. It's your application and you know what direction you want your finished app to take.

By the way, there are MUCH better accounting packages out than Quickbooks.

Agreed. I have used or been exposed to several in the past. Great Plains Dynamics being the latest (Microsoft has now purchased them). That being said, the installed price for Dynamics on the last installation I was involved with was $100K. That is nothing to a big company but that is a HUGE decision whether or not to spend that much for an accounting package for a small business. I think Melvin's point is what I am getting at. I think more detail might be in order so folks know exactly what you are trying to achieve. BTW, I was lost on what those acronyms meant as well.

Regards,

Jeff

[DaveM]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

If I said I needed a CAD system, would you think I meant "Computer Aided Design" or "Computer Aided Dispatch"?

It would be dependent on the audience. To me Autocad would come to mind.

Started this in '97 and still working on it. Good luck getting yours done in a year!

we wrote a small one in 1998-2000 that is currently being sold nationwide. Took 3 people to get it done. There is no accounting, parts, or repairs included. That is why I am looking for modules already done on some level to get it done faster. I know there was an accounting package done a few years ago offered up, but cannot find it now.

Service/repairs are easy for me. parts will be more difficult, but ok. i have been programming cotracts and state forms for years, so that will be ok too.

Quick Books = single entry accounting - good for a company using an outside accounting company. What is needed is a good double entry accounting system to augment the f&i system(Make it more saleable) for a higher price than the basic. there are a great number of basic f&I systems out there. Although a smaller dealer may never use the extra features, he prides that he has the ability as he grows.

Most of the intermediate sized companies wish to keep it all inhouse. They cannot afford ADP(dealer software), reynold & reynolds etc at a million+.

For sales it takes a F&I(finance & Insurance) system from a 1500 dollar sale to a 3000.00 sale. Add parts and repairs and you have a 5500.00 sale. You can sell it only as a package or modualize it.


BHPH is buy here pay here, which means the dealer finances it inhouse. He takes the payments as well as sells the vehicle. He has to conform to all the same regs as a franchise dealer and a finance company. That is why he needs the ability to get and send credit info to the three major credit reporting companies. This is usually by modem, but could be by internet in some cases.

As knowledge, most of these dealers wish their data be kept inhouse, so web server is kinda out unless there are multi locations. that is overcomable too though.

Dave

[peteconway]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

I�ve learnt something today � Dave, thanks for saying no to doing it easy. I agree � I wonder what would Google be today if those guys jus said � �hey let�s just hang this of the back of AltaVisa.

I�m happy to have a look around and see what can be done here (Australia), the market you are working on certainly seems lucrative, and you just might be able to get this over the line.

[Dermot]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

Quick Books = single entry accounting

That's not true. QuickBooks is a full blown double entry accounting system. I am not a fan of QuickBooks but for easy integration, there is nothing out there that can beat it.

[DaveM]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

The last look at Quickbooks I had was a few versions ago and it was single entry at that time. That was why many of our customers wanted a full blown (tie in or written) accounting system.

If it has changed, good for it.

We tied in to quick books several times and it always on the next version. If my customers were the type that kept up on the times and ordered the updates, maybe. I know the audience and they will buy the program once and quickbooks 3 times(upgrades) then scream cause it doesn't tie in anymore.

Give them a connected unit that they cannot update from some other source and it is always tied in.

I don't understand what all the flap is about. a few tables, payroll is not that hard, chart of accounts to customers custom setup which customer can do, credits and debits, balances, checking. What is so hard??

Dave

[[email protected]]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

Hi Dave,

contact John Mango at [email protected], they have a alpha accounts package I have not implemented it into any program yet as it is very US orientated, but from what I can see its complete

Andy

[MikeC]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

Hi,

Strange that the Baystate Consulting does not list Alpha at all in programming languages supported--and they list quite a few. I could not find anything related to Alpha on their site so imagine it would be through John himself for anything Alpha related.

Just adding my two cents! :)

I also would like to commend Dave for undertaking such an endeavor...not an easy task especially if several people get involved.

[DaveM]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

Thanks Andy,

It would make life much easier to have one pre written that could be slightly modified or not to save a lot of time.

I am currently fighting the payments issue with fedeal, state and sometimes other guidelines. They want you to be very exact( of course ) without any guidelins as to how. I can get within a couple cents so far, but is taking time to nudge just right. The weekly, daily, semi-monthlies, etc are tough while easy for monthly. The amortizations have to coincide with the payment schedules too. Interst is figured a little different on those odd payment schedules.

The shop are is working well, I had one made a few years ago with v3 and it only took a little work.

Payroll should be done by december 15 - 30th. Wrote a very good one in a4, but is long since gone.

Parts will take some time, due my NO knowledge of the files the parts suppliers download. It should not be too bad though. I figure a month for that.

The big one is the accounting.

merging it all together could be fun too.

Thanks all of you for the encouragement and help. It will be(prayer!) for sale next year around July. I hope and...

One must do something when they retire from the Car business daily grind.

Dave

[411tech]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

Abbreviations have different meanings to different people. If I said I needed a CAD system, would you think I meant "Computer Aided Design" or "Computer Aided Dispatch"?

To me it would mean "Computer Aided Dispatch"! I was in charge of the NYC Transit Police "CAD" system from 1995 thru 2001. We used a product from Tiburon and it ran on a system 88.

Those were the days. BTW, I did not know what an F&I system was either and I agree that QuickBooks or another Vendors accounting package is the way to go.

I have a VERY large client that uses CYMA IV accounting as an add-on to an MS-ACCESS application with a SQL backend.

When Ad-Hoc reports are requested I use alpha to attach to the SQL to produce the reports. Even if they are Ad-Hoc Accounting reports because CYMA uses BTRIEVE.

Whenever I start a new project, I always investigate other products to see if something out there already does what the client needs. It just does NOT make any sense to re-invent the wheel. Especially the Accounting Wheel.

There is a reason why QuickBooks has the market share it does. The main reason is that Microsoft NEVER had a product to go against it, until its recent acquisition. The other reason is that for BASIC Accounting, it gets the job done. I don't have to worry about taxes, that's their problem.

One more thing. If you plan on doing business in Pennsylvania, STAY AWAY FROM ACCOUNTING. The PAYROLL tax rules in PA are AWFUL, and you never get a straight answer from the taxing authority. Each Township has there own interpretation and it is a NIGHTMARE.

Barry Kucher
http://www.411tech.org