am starting complete dealer f&i system

[DaveM]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

Thanks Barry,

I have already started the payroll and accounting package. The payroll is 80% done and the accounting package is at about 25%.

The payroll is pretty much straight forward and I have a lot of experience with that having done one before. The nuance is the state taxes, but that can be covered on an as we go.

The accounting is a fundamental package with all the reports necessary. Double entry accounting with balance sheets is not as easy as payroll. it all has to tie together too.

finalizing a deal will post to accounting and payroll if I get it right.

Both packages are user defined in that they can put in their own chart of accounts/rates/percentages or let me do it for them as a fee. initially they will have something to go by. Most of my customer base is in Florida, so it is easier.

I guess a portion will have to go to get credit cards up and running too. LOL, just more to do.

ADP that we use in a major dealership does NOT do credit cards. Amazing. it all has to be posted by hand.

Pete, we did it before with just a Finance and insurance program and it is still successful. The company always talked about payroll, accounting, parts and shop but never did it. I watched a horrible program get sales because they had it at 5500 a copy. We were elling for 1500 a copy. It does need to be moduled because not every dealer wants accounting and payroll. Nor do they have a shop.

Dave

[411tech]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

I am just saying, be careful with payroll taxes. Especially in PA. Don't say I didn't warn you.

In PA, you have to a pay a tax just to work. It can range from $0 to $50. Each jurisdiction sets its tax rate. It is based on the location of where they work, not where they live. And not the main office of the employer, but the actual location. If they work in one jurisdiction, then work in a different jurisdiction, you are only supposed to collect the difference.

Then 3 years later, the taxing jurisdictions want documentation that the employees paid the tax to the other jurisdictions. They DONT ask the jurisdictions, they ask the employer!

Barry Kucher
http://www.411tech.org

[DaveM]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

Barry,

Thank you for the heads up.

I think if others can do it, I can too. Now if that sounds cocky, please understand I am never going to underestimate the help available on this forum. It can be done.

Now, I know it is the responsibility of the user to make sure he gets the tax right and also to make sure the tool he is using(my software) is correct. It is my responsibility to give him a tool that works with the necesary adjustments for his needs. In other words I need to make software that he can manipulate for that tax to be correct. Am I responsible for any errors he makes? I am only responsible for the tool to do the math with the variables given. In all cases, a software maker should require a client to supply enough copies of the forms he has to fill out with several correctly filled out so the maker can be sure the math and fields won't be erred. The maker should always keep those filled out forms in a safe place in the event there is a dispute. The side business is when the government changes the forms and you get to charge for the new forms.

If I can write software to figure sales tax in Texas, New York and SC, PA's payroll sounds easy. PA is not the only one with whacky ways to do things. There are some wierd ways to figure sales tax. Counties, states and municipalities get involved at times. Example: FL - state tax = 6%, but not on the trade(trade is deducted and the tax is on the fifference). Any fees are taxable even if an even trade is made. Some counties charge .25% to 1.75%, but are limited to 5000 taxable to a customer according to his address. then there is the contract tax that is charged on the amount financed that amounts to .35 per hundred rounded up and sometimes down. Warranties( and some other) are taxed on their own according to where they are sold, not where the customer lives.

Fortumately, My software will be strictly for Car Dealers and their accountants. That eliminates a lot of whacky stuff you could be involved with.

F&I deal math almost has to be done differently for each state. Thank goodness for Alpha.

I have not touched on the banks and the squirly way some of them calculate. They are sometimes on the wrong side of regulation Z, but as long as I have a few filled out contracts the way they say they want it, let it go. Main objective is for the dealer to be able to cash the contracts for that bank. Feds come down on them, not me and I get to correct the contracts for pay.

Dave

[411tech]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

Dave,

Good luck with your project. You do NOT sound cocky by stating that you can handle it. We ALL have to feel that way when programming a project.

And you are right, the help available on the forums are great if you get stuck. Keep us informed as to your progress.

Recently, I purchased a new vehicle for my wife. As far as I could tell, EVERY dealer had a system either on a mainframe and they were running a terminal program to attach to it, or a DOS based program. I was pretty surprised by this and thought at the time, this might be something I should investigate.

It amazes me how many small, medium and super sized businesses still use DOS based software or just terminal programs connected to big hardware.

Even when they use web browsers, it is still tied to OLD back ends. I guess when it works, it works. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised. The NYPD still uses a modified Eastern Airlines Reservation System from the early 1970's for their 911 Call Center. They now call it E911 and charge a surcharge on every land line and cell phone # $0.75 every month. The E stands for Enhanced. Enhanced stands for Caller ID. And that is just for land lines. The NYPD CANNOT get an automated location on Cell Phone Calls. But they are working on it. It has only been 15 years so far, but it is coming soon!

Barry Kucher
http://www.411tech.org

[DaveM]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

Barry,

Most small dealers ARE on dos because they can print faster with dos. Most larger dealers are on linux or similar and it looks like dos. Some have their data in the store and some have it on a server somewhere else. There are windows connection software for the linux, etc systems too.

dos is dying in the small and medium stores because of Microsoft's drive to windows. Apple is no help to them. The large systems are TOO large and expensive.

Imagine a full, easy to use F&I system that is affordable withmodules for accounting, payroll, shop, and parts that are also affordable. something like f&i = 1500, accounting = 1500 that fits right in, shop 1000, parts 750, credit cards=750 and crm free with the deal? rent it it for 1000 security and 300 per month. Purchases are updated free for 1 year and for a fee after that. upgrades are charged for. Extra forms/reports are charged for. Dealers tend to buy programmed printed forms at the rate of 8 per year with an average cost of 125. You do the math. (forms here are state/bank forms that need programming) This does not include hardware sales. Dot Matrix is essential for a dealer.

Give them a demo that runs for 120 days? Why not. They put their data in for that long, they are used to it and they don't want to go back to dos or doing it by hand and lose access to the work they did.

I have seen all the systems out there that are real competitive and know for sure I can beat them out because I am a CAR MAN first. I know the car business.

Dave

[jhackney]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

Dave,

Reviewed your posts and noticed you coded the application of Texas Sales & Use Tax on your sales orders. I'm a CPA that specializes in Texas Sales Tax and wanted to give you a heads up that Texas just recently changed their rules for collecting local taxes. See link to publication below effective Sep 1, 2007.

http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinf...s/tx98_827.pdf

As you stated, the state tax laws are pretty complex. I would recommend, and you probably already have included, a "taxable" field by service type for dealers that do repairs and maintenance and other services. As you are probably aware, there are some services that are taxable and some that are not. If its a dealer that crosses state lines, you may have to add the ability to have a seperate answer per state.

One idea to add value to your software is to add a module to help your clients identify state tax overpayments. In Texas, most dealers are unaware that they may be eligible for the manufacturing exemption from their used car operations which would alow them to purchase certain machinery and equipment tax free. In some cases, they may even get a refund on the tax they pay on electricity & gas. Just recently, one nationwide chain received a refund in excess of $2 mil b/c of this untapped exemption. Just a thought.

If you ever need help on your state tax setup, let me know. :)

James

[DaveM]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

James,

thank you!

Actually, The way it is being written, the dealer/accountant will be able to modify for their state as they need it.

The way each state does things is different. For instance, Michigan charges state tax on a whole sale price where most states only charge tax on a difference between vehicle sold and vehicle purchased. There are(in some states) county taxes, area taxes, township taxes.

By using conditionl objects and/or seperate forms and/or tabs with objects it can all be brought into play. I have already set up a few states(not texas) to verify how to do it and how to implement the program to do it for the accountant.

This is NOT easy. Before it is over, i will be polling the forum here for some help.

SalesTax is not my main issues right now, but will become a very large issue later.

[jeff_schneidr]

Re: am starting complete dealer f&i system

David

I have to tip my hat to you for your endeavour. However from my experience
developing an accounting module for our application was a never ending
task and a real pain dealing with clients looking for the sophistication of an off the shelf package. Its a bit like reinventing the wheel a bit pointless when their are accounting applications like Sage with their Developer program which allows you to integrate your own front end modules. With the new version of alpha and Sage using sql this must be an easier option and takes away the hassle of supporting an accounts app.

Just my 2 cents worth!

Good luck anyway