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Newb Question Regarding Application Development & Distribution ......

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    Newb Question Regarding Application Development & Distribution ......

    Okay - so I just ordered the "Professional" V8 with a promo price and am confused regarding application development & distribution .....

    If I develop an application and want to distribute that application to (say) 450 customers - some will use it as a desktop standalone, others will require use on their internal network, and others will need to use it via the internet (like a network but they don't have network protocol).

    Given the above - am I required to write 3 unique applications (standalone, network & internet) or one that will work in all three environments?

    Secondly - regarding the "runtime" options (which I got lost reading) - given the above what do I need?

    Thanks for whatever input and guidance you can provide ...

    PS: BTW - this is an application I've already written and have distributed for several years to the 450 customers but I need to refresh & upgrade.

    #2
    Re: Newb Question Regarding Application Development & Distribution ......

    Someone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but Larry it sounds like you just bought one copy of V8. If that is true, you would in fact, need additional copies of the full version or the runtime in order for others to use your application in a network or stand alone scenario, you should not however, have to re-build your "desktop" version of your application. I'm assuming that the application is not server dependant. If it is, I'm not sure how the independent runtimes (off of your local network) would connect to the main database.

    The Web Application Server however, is a whole different animal. Its purpose is basically to access your data tables via the internet. It does not however, take your desktop application and suddenly turn it into a web based one, even though they both share the same data tables and they can both exist simultaneously. You will have to actually "build" a web version of your application, which, while not as feature-rich, can sometimes be easier to develop than the desktop versions.

    That being said, you do NOT have to purchase additional copies of licenses for web access. Once you develop your web-based application and set it up on a server accessible by your users, anyone with the proper login credentials can access it, including the whole 450, if you want. You will however need one copy of the Web Application Server license, which at regular price runs $699.00. (There are many deals to be had at Alpha Software, and you can probably get it for a lot less.) But even at the full, regular price, it's a heck of a lot cheaper than buying hundreds of runtimes, so you might just consider making your whole application accessible via the web.

    I'm presently building all of my applications as "web based," for a variety of reasons. One is, as stated above, no additional licenses to buy. The second and most important to me is, I do not have to go out and "touch" computers. No installing client software, no having to go back and perform updates, etc. I just give the users a url address, and they're off. If I make a change to the application, I make it one time on the server, and the next time a user refreshes their browser, they see the updated application. No fuss, no muss. A user can access your application from across the street, or across the country. In my situation, most of users are police officers, accessing the applications in their patrol cars, using wireless access on their laptop computers, and it works nicely.

    Anyway, I hope this info helps.
    Sergeant Richard Hartnett
    Hyattsville City Police Department
    Maryland

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Newb Question Regarding Application Development & Distribution ......

      Thank you Sgt Hartnett - I sincerely appreciate the input.

      I think I heard what I was afraid I was going to hear - especially if there's a huge evnironment difference between users. It sounds like application distribution costs would increase substantially depending on the type of user - and that's not good news.

      With my application the cumputer awareness level of users runs from zero to some pretty heavy tech savvy. Small Mom & Pop facilities operating the business side of things from their kitchen table to highly sophisticated facilities with multiple locations (sometimes in the states and sometimes in other countries).

      At this point I'm not too sure I've acquired the right tool to refresh & upgrade the application, but we'll give it a shot when it comes and go from there.

      Thanks again ...

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Newb Question Regarding Application Development & Distribution ......

        Larry

        I do not sufficiently understand your application to make a recommendation about how to distribute your application.

        Since it is already distributed - does it already run over the internet?

        We need to talk about more specific requirements and expectations that you have prior to concluding what the costs may be.

        Can you provide more information about what you are looking for?

        Then maybe we can give some better answers about the models that you could use....
        Al Buchholz
        Bookwood Systems, LTD
        Weekly QReportBuilder Webinars Thursday 1 pm CST

        Occam's Razor - KISS
        Normalize till it hurts - De-normalize till it works.
        Advice offered and questions asked in the spirit of learning how to fish is better than someone giving you a fish.
        When we triage a problem it is much easier to read sample systems than to read a mind.
        "Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler."
        Albert Einstein

        http://www.iadn.com/images/media/iadn_member.png

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Newb Question Regarding Application Development & Distribution ......

          I strongly support what Al said. We would really need to here more about what you are trying to do. For instance, if there was never to be more than 3 people accessing your application at one time, then you would be able to get by with only one 3 user runtime. A runtime package can be given out to unlimited customers, it can only be accessed at one time at one location by the number of the users allowed - in the above example 3.

          So try to outline more about your users and what their needs are and mention them here.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Newb Question Regarding Application Development & Distribution ......

            Al - thanks for your response.

            The application in question is software to manage Horse Operations - monthly Billing Statements, Health Records, Breeding Records, Training Fees & Expenses, Showing Fees & Expenses, Financial and Operating Reports, Horses for Sale, etc.

            To those not familiar with running large Training & Breeding Operations it may not sound like a big deal to manage that information. But some of my customers just out of one facility will stand 6 Stallions, breed 400 - 700 mares every year, have to deal with all the associated health records, breeding records, Vet records and expenses, boarding expenses, customer info and feedback, monthly billing, training expenses, etc., etc. It's a lot of work !

            The customer base covers everything from very small 1-man operations to operations that have multiple locations both here in the states and in Europe or South America.

            No, my application is not currently available for the Internet which is one of the reasons I need to update it. Some of my competition's is. My current customers with those multi-location facilities have to maintain separate copies of the program - send reports to the main office - and then a clerical-type consolidates whatever they want to see into a central version. I just have two of those multi-national customers because of the limitations of my application but there's many more out there to be had.

            Many customers have just one location - do their "work" in the barn and take care of the "bookwork" in the home office. Other Customers have a network operation where they have a main office (somewhere on the ranch) and are networked to PC's in the breeding barn, networked to other PC's in the training barn, etc. Then there's the guys that have a breeding / training facility in "Location 1" (Texas, etc.), have another facility in "Location 2" (Colorado, Italy, etc.), and another facility in "Location 3".

            What I'm looking for is application generator software that can accomodate development for desktop stand-alone, networks and the internet. Preferably without having to write (and maintain) 3 different versions. For distribution purposes I want to be able to send installation CD's to customers without regard to how many PC's they're going to install the software on, and without regard to how many customers I have. For existing customers the installation CD would also convert their existing data.

            What I have now I developed myself from scratch and was among the first to address this specific market. My application is outdated now and needs to be updated to take advantage of more recent technology. Admitedly my wish-list may be a little over-simplified but that's what I'm looking for.

            Again - thanks for the response.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Newb Question Regarding Application Development & Distribution ......

              the desktop and LAN app are one app, and the web app is another app

              on the desktop/LAN app you can easily code, where necessary, for differences when run on a LAN

              your cost is minimal

              1 full version for developing
              1 runtime version for both single and LAN distribution
              -----the Runtime has licenses for the maximum number of users per LAN
              -----so, if the max concurrent users per LAN would be 10 or 20 or
              -----whatever, you buy a runtime license for that max users
              -----e.g., I have an app that runs in a hospital chain that is typically
              -----installed on maybe 250 terminals, but we only have a 10 user
              -----license, as that is all that is needed for that department.
              1 web server license
              -----I think a caveat here depends on who is going to host the app
              -----if your client wants to host it, he would need a webserver license

              but regardless, Alpha will cost you a fraction of what it will cost to distribute with any other system I am aware of.
              Cole Custom Programming - Terrell, Texas
              972 524 8714
              [email protected]

              ____________________
              "A young man who is not liberal has no heart, but an old man who is not conservative has no mind." GB Shaw

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Newb Question Regarding Application Development & Distribution ......

                Thanks very much for the input Martin - I sincerely appreciate it.

                When you say "1 runtime version for both single and LAN distribution" I assume that means I need 1 runtime version for each of my single or LAN customers ... correct?

                Thanks again

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Newb Question Regarding Application Development & Distribution ......

                  Originally posted by eaglebqh View Post
                  When you say "1 runtime version for both single and LAN distribution" I assume that means I need 1 runtime version for each of my single or LAN customers ... correct?
                  NOT correct. YOU, only have to buy one RT. Then you can take that single RT that you paid for and give or sell it to ALL 450 customers. The RT comes in different versions - 3/5/10/20/etc user RTs. If you buy ONE 20-user RT, you can distribute that to ALL your customers. It doesn't matter if some customers are running a single machine or a network w. 500 machines. It just means that no more than 20-users can access the database at the same time. Make sense?

                  In order to build your application, you need the Development version, which you already bought.

                  If you want a WEB application you may or may not need the Application Server + each customer will need one Web Application Server (WAS) license - UNLESS, you plan on hosting multiple customers on ONE server. You build and test your web app on the Development version that you already own.

                  As stated above, the web application requires you to build a web interface, completely different than your desktop interface - BUT they can share the same tables, sets & reports.

                  Hope that adds a little clarity to an issue that is understandably confusing to many people.
                  Last edited by Peter.Greulich; 10-21-2007, 12:59 PM.
                  Peter
                  AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                  [email protected]
                  https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Newb Question Regarding Application Development & Distribution ......

                    I would develop a single desktop application and use Remote Desktop Connection (Windows Terminal Services) to run remotely.

                    One application to develop and maintain. It works on a single machine, locally networked, and/or remotely networked (internet). Same interface for all types of connections.

                    For ease of implementation and maintenance, I'd have each client have a developer's copy (optional) and a runtime (required).

                    You would have your own developer's copy and buy one runtime license to distribute to with each purchase.

                    I like to have each installation have a developer's copy because I can make changes on remote machines immediately rather than transfering data or structures between me and the machines. But it's a convenience more than a requirement.

                    So I see you buying a developer's copy and a runtime (for the maximum number of users for a single company).

                    Optionally you can buy a developer's copy for each company and include that in the maintenance fees that you charge.
                    Al Buchholz
                    Bookwood Systems, LTD
                    Weekly QReportBuilder Webinars Thursday 1 pm CST

                    Occam's Razor - KISS
                    Normalize till it hurts - De-normalize till it works.
                    Advice offered and questions asked in the spirit of learning how to fish is better than someone giving you a fish.
                    When we triage a problem it is much easier to read sample systems than to read a mind.
                    "Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler."
                    Albert Einstein

                    http://www.iadn.com/images/media/iadn_member.png

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Newb Question Regarding Application Development & Distribution ......

                      Thanks a lot guys - you're really clarifying some things that were really confusing me. I sincerely appreciate your input and look forward to getting the software so I can begin to re-develop my application.

                      I'll try not to bother you guys too much going forward but you probably haven't heard the last of me !

                      Thanks again ...

                      Larry

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Newb Question Regarding Application Development & Distribution ......

                        Al,

                        I read your comments concerning Windows Terminal Services and wanted to get your further input. My questions are not neccesarily A5 specific but could be.

                        Have you found TS to be a stable method of accessing an app that runs all day, every day as in a normal office situation?

                        How have you addressed the "Printing" from TS problem - I hear thats a real weakness in TS?

                        If TS really works, why isn't it the "No Brainer" solution for all of us who want to go Internet but already have huge investments in legacy desktop apps.?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Newb Question Regarding Application Development & Distribution ......

                          Originally posted by Fulltimer View Post
                          Al,

                          I read your comments concerning Windows Terminal Services and wanted to get your further input. My questions are not neccesarily A5 specific but could be.

                          Have you found TS to be a stable method of accessing an app that runs all day, every day as in a normal office situation?
                          Yes - the heavier load the better TS (ie Remote Desktop Connection) is a solution. By the way, large companies have been doing this for a long time, but it was called Citrix. The large companies paid for the research and development and now it's affordable.

                          Originally posted by Fulltimer View Post
                          How have you addressed the "Printing" from TS problem - I hear thats a real weakness in TS?
                          3rd party references without documentation is a weak argument.

                          Printing can be done, but as I recall you'll need to install the appropriate printer driver on the server machine to match the local printer.

                          Originally posted by Fulltimer View Post
                          If TS really works, why isn't it the "No Brainer" solution for all of us who want to go Internet but already have huge investments in legacy desktop apps.?
                          Change is slow for some things. I see TS as an ultimate thin client. A lot like the timeshare systems were 25-35 years ago. It's amazing how the cycle of change keeps going around and coming back to 'old technology'.

                          'Go to the internet' is much different than a TS solution. Are you comparing a browser based system to a TS based system? Each has it's own place. Browser based for the outer circle of users, TS based for the inner circle of users.

                          And of course all of this is muddied by the enhancements and improvement in techniques in scripting for browsers. So it is not always a clear choice for decision makers. So many stay with what they know and don't challenge their own ideas.

                          You should find Dan Blank's presentation from the 2007 ATEC. (Alpha Technology and Education Conference)
                          Al Buchholz
                          Bookwood Systems, LTD
                          Weekly QReportBuilder Webinars Thursday 1 pm CST

                          Occam's Razor - KISS
                          Normalize till it hurts - De-normalize till it works.
                          Advice offered and questions asked in the spirit of learning how to fish is better than someone giving you a fish.
                          When we triage a problem it is much easier to read sample systems than to read a mind.
                          "Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler."
                          Albert Einstein

                          http://www.iadn.com/images/media/iadn_member.png

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Newb Question Regarding Application Development & Distribution ......

                            Just an observation on Terminal Server.

                            Note: I am not a Systems guy so perhaps there are work arounds to the following limitation that I am unaware of.

                            I have a client that just installed TS and there are some really cool aspects to it. But, I have noticed one big limitation from my view point. If you want your application to talk to any peripherals directly then TS may not be the way to go. For example, my application communicates with a Pocket PC to update records in the one of the main tables. Here is the problem - TS seemingly does not support local USB devices.

                            Note: my client is using Vmware to create 2 Terminal Servers on one physical box. I am not sure if the local peripheral limitation is due to TS or Vmware. I would welcome input on that if someone knows. I have not had a chance to look into it yet.

                            That being said, what the IT folks sold my client works great if you just really need "dumb" terminals for data entry. But, if you need to communicate with something else in your app (Pocket PC, Scanner, etc.) you may have issues.

                            My client currently is being forced to run half of my app in TS and then the other half (where the users talk to peripherals) in a "standard networking mode".

                            Regards,

                            Jeff

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Newb Question Regarding Application Development & Distribution ......

                              Hi Jeff,

                              I may be wrong here, but the reference to Terminal Server is for 'remote' users instead of using the web via browser. If I am correct with this reference, whether your client uses TS or the web, neither of those users would be able to connect with a USB devise.
                              Cheryl
                              #1 Designs By Pagecrazy
                              http://pagecrazy.com/

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