Using Alpha Five with "industry specific" POS software

[seaken64]

Using Alpha Five with third party "industry specific" POS software.

(Warning! Long post)

Over the past several years I have developed an Alpha Five application that I use to keep track of our customers and their job history, including sales leads and service requests. It is not a professional system but we have come to rely on it for customer lookups and to answer questions about customer contact information and associated appliance models and installation and service history.

Our business has grown to the point where I need to expand into computer assisted inventory and purchase orders and point of sale/order entry modules. I have been investigating the possibility of bringing in a full-blown POS and accounting system that is designed specifically for my industry. I am torn over the possibility of losing control over my data and not being able to use what I have created so far in Alpha Five. I have not found a company providing POS software in our industry that knows anything about Alpha Five or even allows open access to the underlying data files for manipulation.

I am looking at several packages. I am leaning toward either an industry system that uses Firebird (Ideal) or the general CAM Commerce Retail Star package that uses Gupta SQLbase.

My concern with putting any of these systems into place is that I won't be able to share the customer database among the POS package and my custom made Alpha Five customer manager. I am also unsure of how I will be handling the accounting end of this whole thing. We currently use DacEasy (from Best Software) as our general ledger but we do not otherwise make use of any of the computer modules for invoicing or A/R and A/P. This adds another layer for decision making. Will I end up with three software programs that all need to talk to one another?

As I see it I have three choices:

Choice 1: Continue to use Alpha Five on my own and learn to add the needed features to my existing database application. This will no doubt be the cheapest way to go but will take me more time and may never get done. I can't grow the business and work in the trenches developing software solutions myself. I'm afraid I will miss my opportunity to grow if I make this choice.

Choice 2: Hire a qualified Alpha Five developer/programmer to create a customized solution, either expanding what I have started or starting over from scratch with a better design. This is the choice that I really prefer but I have no idea how much it will cost. I have a feeling it will cost much more than one of these other solutions. But if the solution works and can be relied on to run my business I might see a larger return on investment in the end. I also may be able to add another choice of software solutions to our industry.

Choice 3: Abandon my Alpha Five application and replace it with an industry specific POS system already in use by other industry shops. I hate to give up on Alpha Five but if I use one of these other packages they will not be designed with A5 or give me any help if I try to expand or tweak the system with A5 as my front end. I may be able to connect to the tables with A5 on my own and have the best of both worlds. I'm just not sure I will be successful with this approach. If I do this I may be better off focusing my attention on the industry software and helping the company grow the software using their own tools.

I have decided I am going to choose either number 2 or 3 and stop trying to develop my own software. My time needs to be spent on growing my business and I don't have the knowledge to quickly put together the software I need. It's time to hire some professional software people to help.

As Alpha Five champions, what would be your advice to me, as a business manager? Do you think I would be better off developing an entire business management software solution using A5 an a professional A5 developer? Or, do you think I could achieve good results using a third party industry specific POS system and using A5 as an adjunct to that system, connecting to the underlying database files as needed?

My favorite industry specific system uses Firebird as the back end database. How difficult will it be to use A5 to connect to the Firebird data using SQL? Firebird is a current open source implementation of Borland's Interbase.

My second favorite system uses Gupta SQLbase. Gupta has lost most of it's prior recognition and is often said to be "legacy" database software. But it is solid SQL and can be connected to. I was successful getting A5 to connect to a test database (but I could not access the tables. I'm assuming I could get help working out the kinks since Gupta does offer help for ODBC).

In addition to A5 developers, if you are a business person, what would be your advise?

If there is anyone already involved in a similar exercise and would like to open a dialog I would very much like to hear from you.

Thank you,
Sean Kennedy

[Steve Workings]

Re: Using Alpha Five with "industry specific" POS software

A5 will connect to a Firebird database, and then allow you to work with the two of them together. It may also well connect with the other SQL package you name.

It sounds to me that you know more than most managers what's going on with your data. That's no surprise if you've built stuff in A5 for a while.

My experience is that customers are ultimately happier going with as much A5 as you can mix into your solution. That's because A5 gives you the power & flexibility to create whatever you need. The other packages won't.

Yes, it appears to cost more and take more time, but the net for your business is usually a huge gain. Anything else puts you in a box and reduces your flexibility.

I'll give you an example:

I have a customer I've been working with for a decade. They've had several other business opportunities come their way over the years, and because we used A5 and a solution we built ourselves, we've been able to extend the database to accomodate those other opportunities. The things that A5 have allowed us to do with such speed, flexibility and professionalism just can't be done in any other package. I wish I could tell you about the details of something we just did this month alone to win a major new batch of business but I can't detail my customer's confidential info. But trust me -- if you knew and understood what we did, you'd be blown away.

The same customer just lost a key employee for a while due to a car accident. The people trying to pick up the slack came to me for some help with some stuff they've been doing in Excel on a daily basis. With 4 hrs of work on my end, I've given them the same result that they can now get with a push of a button and about a 2 second wait. Gonna save the day for them!

It seems to me that you need to visit and revist your business plan, and decide how you're going to manage your business and your time. But this starts running off into managerial advice....

Enough rambling from me. Good luck with your choices and decisions.

[Doug Page]

Re: Using Alpha Five with "industry specific" POS software

I come from a background of business owner who enjoys computers which sounds similar to yours. I too have had the same decision to make and I usually challenge what we are doing every few years to see what else is available. Some points that I have considered over the years:

1) The data is mine! I must have easy access to it whether it is real time or passive link in nature. Most add-ons that I have developed do not really need actual real time links. No off the shelf package will do everything that you want so add-ons are always a need. The accounting package that we have (Syspro) has ODBC drivers and the data files are really easy to import as well. I am really looking forward to the next couple of versions of Alpha as they increase the simplicity of using connections to external DB's.

2) When it comes to the accounting side, there are so many packages out there that you should eventually find something that is close to what you need for your business. Accountants have also suggested that if you do end up being audited, one of the first things that the auditor will ask is what software you use. They have lists of software that the government has already approved. If you write the software, then they might want to send in a tech person to verify that everything is being done correctly. I don't know about you, but I don't have the time or want to be under that kind of scrutinity. Please note that this does not eliminate using Alpha Five. There are many developers out there that have already created such packages. Perhaps as part of your investigation you could post your requirements and ask for an RFP.

3) Don't limit your budget when you are looking at potential accounting packages. This allows you to "find" options that you might never have considered. You might also see how easy it would be to add these new ideas by using Alpha with another package that is substantially cheaper. I have also found some very useful ideas from low cost and free accounting packages.

A good mix of a stable feature rich accounting system and Alpha can be a very rich mixture.

If I think of anything else, I'll make sure I post back.

[Bob Houle]

Re: Using Alpha Five with "industry specific" POS software

I have seen many of the same problems you have.

We decided to dump our accounting software a few years ago and eventually settled on a new program called "Sage BusinessVision". It has a POS built in, so it was ideal for our needs.

BV uses Pervasive SQL as it's backend database. I've never had to tap into it since they allow you to export "most" information to an ASCII file.

The job-costing module in BV didn't work like I wanted, so I created my own work order / job tracking system.

As long as your third party "industry specific" POS software allows you to export your data, you should be able to work with Alpha Five and continue to use your current program.

A compromize that works is usually the best solution.


--Bob

[seaken64]

Re: Using Alpha Five with "industry specific" POS software

Thank you all for your thoughts. Very helpful.

My main difficulty is that I have created a system that links several tables by an auto increment customer number system. If I now import all my customers into another system and start using that system to create new customers how will I maintain the links to the external tables I am using in A5? Yes, I could export the customer file every day and then import to A5. I'm just not sure how to make this work automatically.

Currently, when I want to enter a new customer request I first lookup the customer record and click on the existing customer to enter the customer number for the link. If the customer does not already exist I click on the "Add New Customer" button and open the customer entry form. The new customer is automatically given a customer number. Once the customer is entered I can return to the request form and enter the customer number that was automatically assigned.

If my customer file is now outside of A5 how will I do this lookup in real time? If I rely on daily export/import of the customer table I may already have the customer entered in the POS system but not know it yet, until after the import. Also, I am forced into using the POS system to add new customers and can no longer use my local "Add new customer" button.

I was hoping to e able to "connect" to the new POS system and be able to add new records directly to the customer table and also be able to look up the existing customer record directly from the POS customer table. I would also like the ability to do the same with my products table.

I was thinking A5v8 would make this simple. Now I'm not so sure. Seems SQL connectivity is not enough. I need permission from the software vendor to get at the tables. What do you think? Will there be any chance of me connecting to a vendor's POS/Accounting tables without asking for their permission? Will I be able to add records to the tables from outside of their software package?

Thanks,
Sean

[Doug Page]

Re: Using Alpha Five with "industry specific" POS software

Sean,

When you have "disjointed" applications that require import/export of records, it is usually best to leave the entry of items to the MAIN application. In your case, that would be your accounting package. You have not mentioned what you are using so that anyone that knows your accounting package could chime in on how they do things.

I was hoping to e able to "connect" to the new POS system and be able to add new records directly to the customer table and also be able to look up the existing customer record directly from the POS customer table. I would also like the ability to do the same with my products table.

I was thinking A5v8 would make this simple. Now I'm not so sure. Seems SQL connectivity is not enough.

As far as real time SQL read/write access, it is there but you need to code your own XDialogs. At this time, the easier method of using forms is not yet available. I believe that with XDialog you would be able to do the things that you are talking about. However, I will put in a disclaimer here that I have not personally done this. I believe that one of the videos on Alphas website does demonstrate interaction with SQL databases.

I need permission from the software vendor to get at the tables. What do you think? Will there be any chance of me connecting to a vendor's POS/Accounting tables without asking for their permission? Will I be able to add records to the tables from outside of their software package?

Do you know what kind of database that they are using? If it is something that is not proprietary, then there is probably some sort of ODBC driver available for it. You shouldn't need permission to get at your own data. Let us know a little more about what you are using and perhaps we can figure out what is possible to do.

[John Cunradi]

Re: Using Alpha Five with "industry specific" POS software

I do a lot of work with POS systems of various brands. Specifically getting them to work with data needed by and generated by inventory auditing services.

Generally you will find that they don't play well with others.
They often won't work with other programs because they have a proprietary data structure or they charge large amounts of money for the software that bridges the gap or charge large amounts of money for their consultants to make these things work for you.

Expect their tech support to be uncooperative.

If at all possible, stick with A5.