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My door to Platinum stays open...

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    My door to Platinum stays open...

    Without prejudice, I've been reading the message board posts regarding the new run engine pricing and options. Some people refer to "closing the door", and I can't understand why. Alpha Software is like any other owner of intellectual property exercising their rights to protect their investment and future.

    I, as a composer of music, completely understand. If I compose music, I've put a lot of heart & soul, and often money into it, and rightfully want people to pay me for each song sold, but as most of you know, lots and lots of music piracy exists out there - and unfortunately people copy MP3s, and "share" them with others to the point musicians say, why do I bother to make music at all? Aside from the fact, I enjoy creating music, I certainly don't want people to steal my efforts. Yet it happens millions of times everyday. I have a friend, wealthy in fact, him and his wife always "get" "free music" off the web, and they think nothing of it! And yet they can truly afford to buy that music - moreso than a lot of us!

    The same goes for software development. People seem to be stuck in the paradigm of "free", and the intangibility of the 'digital stuff' makes it "OK" to abuse it. Most of some of these message board postings complain about the idea of having to fork out more dollars for the run engines for deployment of their Alpha Five applications to clients. Yes, understandably there are scenarios that warrant some flexibility, but I can see that Alpha Software strives diligently to accommodate those unique scenarios!

    By the same token, these same developers, they wouldn't want others "making free copies" of their own A5 applications either, and to make it said I think a few are looking at the "splinter in someone else's eye, yet they ignore the "timber" in their own eye.

    I go back to my music scenario of my wealthy friend, they say, "it's ok to download those MP3s, they are "free" he, says. I answer to him and say, then you're alright with it then if I go to your CD collection and just help myself? He looks at me funny when I say that.

    In summary, I'm not trying to negate the legitimate concerns of various development scenarios here, just that the bottom line is that Alpha Software has invested a significant amount of time, effort, and of course a lot of money to create Platinum. I myself have developed commercial off the shelf type applications, but that's where the OEM Run engine comes in to play. I know that the staff at Alpha Software are always striving to be flexible, yet fair when it comes to pricing structures, and let's face it - they have a phenomenal product!

    *** Keep in mind, sure there may be alternatives out there, but a lot of the Microsoft alternatives are pricey, have huge time costs, and definitely have steeper learning curves. Alpha Five delivers more on RAD than many, many alternatives out there, the Run Engine licensing should be welcomed - simply because now we can also protect our own intellectual investments in our A5 applications! Alpha Software is flexible, fair and diligent.

    This message board was designed for courteous, legitimate & professional discussions, and yes we may not all agree with everything or everyone all of the time, but that's what makes us human.

    - awj :)
    Last edited by awj; 03-24-2008, 12:25 PM.

    #2
    Re: My door to Platinum stays open...

    Hello Andrew,

    first, i don't have any of your mp3's or anybody else's and don't believe in it just like I don't use Alpha's stuff unless I paid for it.
    unfortunately people copy MP3s, and "share
    You worked for it and should be paid. Alpha worked for it and should be paid. How much and to what extent is in debate. We all want Alpha to exist and thrive.

    Some of our discussions and thoughts may not affect you, but could severely affect us and Alpha a great deal.

    the biggest problem right now is the runtime structure. that can affect me and a lot of others very badly.
    Dave Mason
    [email protected]
    Skype is dave.mason46

    Comment


      #3
      Re: My door to Platinum stays open...

      Yes, understandably there are scenarios that warrant some flexibility, but I can see that Alpha Software strives diligently to accommodate those unique scenarios!
      Hello Dave;

      As mentioned, I don't belittle any concerns, but I know for a fact that as indicated above, Alpha Software is working hard to understand your issues, and ensure that we as developers are not tossed out of the loop in terms of our own development activities.

      cheers, awj - :)

      Comment


        #4
        Re: My door to Platinum stays open...

        I have no problem purchasing a full copy of V9 and paying for the runtime to go with it. I feel Alpha is entitled to be compensated for their work on a fine product. Every worker is entitled to their wages! That is why we all work, to pay for our existents. I have no problem even paying more for V9 than previous versions. But, when I as a developer buy a runtime I should be able to distribute my applications with it. That is why I bought a runtime and what a runtime by definition is for.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: My door to Platinum stays open...

          Originally posted by Alan Lee View Post
          I have no problem purchasing a full copy of V9 and paying for the runtime to go with it. I feel Alpha is entitled to be compensated for their work on a fine product. Every worker is entitled to their wages! That is why we all work, to pay for our existents. I have no problem even paying more for V9 than previous versions. But, when I as a developer buy a runtime I should be able to distribute my applications with it. That is why I bought a runtime and what a runtime by definition is for.
          I understand your concerns, but I should point out that in the documentation for even the A5V8 (and previous) Runtime licensing, it clearly states:

          The Alpha Five Version 8 runtimes allow for unlimited distribution per application ... If you are developing custom applications for various customers, then each customer is required to have their own runtime.
          The keywords are "per application". Many developers were simply building many different applications, yet were using the same runtime copy across multiple applications. There is a difference. It's in the licensing agreements. Note also the indications for custom applications for different clients.

          awj :)
          Last edited by awj; 03-24-2008, 02:47 PM.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: My door to Platinum stays open...

            And if they choose to enforce that for the future..... they stand to lose a great deal (if not most of) their client base.

            I have no desire to steal any of Alpha's work. But if they price it too high (one runtime per application), they'll lose me.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: My door to Platinum stays open...

              Originally posted by Tom Mills View Post
              And if they choose to enforce that for the future..... they stand to lose a great deal (if not most of) their client base.

              I have no desire to steal any of Alpha's work. But if they price it too high (one runtime per application), they'll lose me.
              I haven't seen or heard anything that would suggest such a thing, I was under the impression the wording in the RT explanation referred to custom apps for different customers than to limiting each RT to just one app.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: My door to Platinum stays open...

                Originally posted by Tom Mills View Post
                And if they choose to enforce that for the future..... they stand to lose a great deal (if not most of) their client base.

                I have no desire to steal any of Alpha's work. But if they price it too high (one runtime per application), they'll lose me.
                Hi Tom;

                Referring to "per application", that simply means (documentation on Alpha's site) if you have a commercial app, where say you sell 100 or more single-user copies, then in the case of A5V8, then one unlimited runtime applied. *See OEM Run Engine for Platinum, as Alpha accommodates this scenario with that product.

                If you develop "Custom App A", for Client A, they need their runtime(s) purchased (whether 3, or 10 users etc.), and then if you have another Custom App B, for Client B, again they need their separate runtime(s) for that as well. If you had a package of 3 single user runtimes @ $249 (for example), and you provided the Custom App A to your Client A, you've likely charged him/her the fees associated with a custom App. Therefore, if you give them (or sell) one of the runtimes (if they need only 1 run engine), it really costs you only $83. for that (1) license for that particular client. In a custom app I developed, the cost was several $1,000s - so adding a runtime is really inconsequential, even when they upgrade to Platinum, the cost to the client will be low.

                In the case of selling a packaged app online say, you sell 100 copies, and you've bought the OEM Run Engine license, it breaks down your unit cost to only $5.99 each! The more you sell, the cheaper the run engine. And yes, it's not supporting the SQL connectivity, but most "packaged" apps are standalone.

                awj :)
                Last edited by awj; 03-24-2008, 04:29 PM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: My door to Platinum stays open...

                  Andrew,

                  Sell your 20 user runtime app online and what does it cost you for 100 copies?

                  By the way, it is not 20 users, it is 20 seats in v9. There is a huge difference.

                  IF you could get the price down to 20.00 per seat it would cost $40,000.00

                  lets see, if I sold the package for 400.00 each, it would cost the same as the runtime, so I would have to sell at 600.00 to not even break even with my other costs.

                  this is why I am being so stubborn! i don't think the marketing department thought this through.
                  Last edited by DaveM; 03-24-2008, 05:54 PM.
                  Dave Mason
                  [email protected]
                  Skype is dave.mason46

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: My door to Platinum stays open...

                    Originally posted by DaveM View Post
                    Andrew,

                    Sell your 20 user runtime app online and what does it cost you for 100 copies?


                    I have no need to sell a 20-user runtime app online at this time. If you happen to have a 20-user app you want to sell online, feel free to talk to Alpha about this - it sounds like a different situation yet again.

                    I really think you should talk to Richard - I'm not sure you're quite understanding it.

                    awj :)
                    Last edited by awj; 03-24-2008, 06:07 PM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: My door to Platinum stays open...

                      i have tlked to richard.
                      Dave Mason
                      [email protected]
                      Skype is dave.mason46

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: My door to Platinum stays open...

                        Originally posted by DaveM View Post
                        i have tlked to richard.
                        Sorry, not sure what else I can suggest.

                        awj

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: My door to Platinum stays open...

                          No problem!

                          Whatever happens, we must all remain as loyal as we can and be friends.

                          Sales told me when I finally got through to them that there would be NO unlimited runtime(Bret Johnson). that is when i really started working.

                          Well, I can't sell cars on here and have devoted almost 3 days to this try.

                          Probably get kicked off here before it is done, but there are many people out there that know nothing of this try or have a clue v9 is out.

                          The problem is, if you have one saying something, you have another 50 that just go away and never come back. Anything that causes this wait to end early is good for Alpha more than me by 1000 fold.
                          Dave Mason
                          [email protected]
                          Skype is dave.mason46

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: My door to Platinum stays open...

                            Andrew, there was no need to explain the runtime to me. I understand it perfectly.

                            Enough to know that it will severely hurt Alpha in the long run. All they have to do is make this OEM version serve SQL data and less than 20 concurrent users.

                            dbf's are quickly becoming obsolete in the database world. Small developers need to ability to create small, relatively inexpensive apps against Access and MYSQL (and other SQL databases).

                            If they don't sell us a runtime that can be used as needed for all small, multi-user applications we may develop, then slowly but surely, they are squeezing out their customer base in the hopes they land the big fish.

                            And I don't think they'll land the big fish.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: My door to Platinum stays open...

                              Dave: I agree that probably patience is the best. Not sure about the "NO" Unlimited runtime though. I'm sure they will still go with that OEM Run Engine as it makes perfect sense - especially for those of us selling commercial applications to single-users online.

                              We'll wait and see what the verdict is I guess!

                              cheers,

                              awj :)
                              Last edited by awj; 03-24-2008, 06:37 PM.

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