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Alpha Five V9 vs. Ruby on Rails

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    Alpha Five V9 vs. Ruby on Rails

    Good evening -
    Has anyone developed web apps using both tools? If so, is there anything that RoR can do that Alpha cannot (either out of the box or through xBasic)?
    Thanks in advance for your time.
    Andrew

    #2
    Re: Alpha Five V9 vs. Ruby on Rails

    I have not had more than passing experience with ROR
    I have however put A5 V9 under the microscope re Ajax and Web features

    Check this link which shows an A5 Ajax app I am currently building
    http://www.a1software.net/video/A1ResOverview.htm

    Unless I was a game/graphics developer I cant really see any limitations with using A5 to code any modern real-world end user apps.
    Mike Thomson

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Alpha Five V9 vs. Ruby on Rails

      Thank you for sharing Mike -- looks like a very responsive app. If it wasn't for the browser, I would have had a hard time knowing it was a web vs. desktop app.

      Great job!

      Andrew

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Alpha Five V9 vs. Ruby on Rails

        nice work Mike!

        if you like we can host this video on one of servers in Burlington MA

        thanks
        Richard Rabins
        Co Chairman
        Alpha Software

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Alpha Five V9 vs. Ruby on Rails

          That looks awesome, I would definetly like to see the code behind that, that is even better than an application developed in A5 for the desktop, notice how he extends the bars by dragging the edge. I think that is not posible to do on the desktop using A5 (maybe using the new embedded html form feature)
          Cheers
          Mauricio

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Alpha Five V9 vs. Ruby on Rails

            In fact you could implement drag & drop & resize using the desktop model however you would still have to use Javascript and the embedded browser control.

            Although I a fan of the desktop I now wonder (with Ajax libraries) - why I would bother.
            Mike Thomson

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Alpha Five V9 vs. Ruby on Rails

              That is beyond AWESOME Mike! Very Cool!

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Alpha Five V9 vs. Ruby on Rails

                Congratulations Mike!

                The drag and drop and resize is just awesome.

                I hope that you and/or Alpha will provide details of how this was done as I think many users are keen to use this type of functionality.

                Garry

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Alpha Five V9 vs. Ruby on Rails

                  I pasted this from the reply to another post
                  To all - FYI

                  I have agreed with Richard to do a small set of Ajax video tutorials. I don't expect they will be step by step but hopefully for those of you prepared to put in the yards re A5 & Javascript they will point you in the right direction.

                  Details will be advised, however since I don't get paid directly for this service please do not hassle me re time frame etc.
                  Mike Thomson

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Alpha Five V9 vs. Ruby on Rails

                    For anyone interested in the drag & drop side, this page has a free JS & DHTML library that does marvellous things with drag & drop: http://www.walterzorn.com/dragdrop/dragdrop_e.htm

                    I implemented a pretty nifty demo with this a long while ago but it was never used, incidentally the library has just been updated this month after about 2 years since I last used it... will have to have a look again, perhaps this time round I will actually understand some of the JavaScript ! Plus, in combination witht he A5 JavaScript libraries this is possible, since it was addressing the individual elements that was the major pain last time!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Alpha Five V9 vs. Ruby on Rails

                      Agree, FYI - I use www.walterzorn.com and create one drag drop layer which I then size to each cell for each mouseover event based on cell offset values
                      Mike Thomson

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Alpha Five V9 vs. Ruby on Rails

                        Originally posted by Mike Thomson View Post
                        Agree, FYI - I use www.walterzorn.com and create one drag drop layer which I then size to each cell for each mouseover event based on cell offset values
                        LOL so there is only the one source for ace D&D scripts in JS then ;-)

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Alpha Five V9 vs. Ruby on Rails

                          Originally posted by achung View Post
                          Good evening -
                          Has anyone developed web apps using both tools? If so, is there anything that RoR can do that Alpha cannot (either out of the box or through xBasic)?
                          Thanks in advance for your time.
                          Andrew
                          Both are able to do more than most people will ever need. The downside of RoR is the learning curve and development time, the upside, it's free and there are a lot of reference books available. The biggest downside I saw with A5 was the limited hosting options. However, since you can run it on a VPS, that issue has pretty much gone away.

                          BTW- I don't claim to be a RoR expert but I did teach myself to use it enough to be able to make a fair comparison with A5. I as able to do that by ordering some books off of Amazon.com. There is a ton of stuff about Ruby. I hope the same will be true for A5 someday.
                          Tommy Thompson
                          Thompson Consulting Services
                          Beautiful Kentucky Lake, Springville, TN 38256
                          [email protected]

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Alpha Five V9 vs. Ruby on Rails

                            I'm a huge Alpha Five fan and I've also been studying and developing web applications with Ruby on Rails (RoR) for the past year. After studying the Ruby language, I decided I HAD to give RoR a chance because in my mind, Ruby represents the most elegant and simple object oriented language that I've seen. I've never been a big fan of Basic, and much prefer Pascal or C. This is simply a personal preference.

                            Here's my take on the two.

                            When building custom web applications for small business or targeted applications for any customer, you can't beat Alpha Five for it's ease of installation, relatively short learning curve and rapid web application development. If you stick to development with components (grids, etc), use the A5 security framework and fantastic report generator you can build some amazing stuff really fast. Customers love this. When you feel comfortable with this level of web development, then it's time to dig into Xbasic and push into Ajax development. Here you'll need to get up to speed with CSS and Javascript to really get your apps to look and act the way you want. The thing that's cool is that you can do this over time and gain confidence as you go. The development and learning process is rather linear. While the use of components is unique, the actual development cycle utilizes a familiar style, assuming you've previously programmed in any of the procedural languages like Basic, Pascal, C, etc.


                            With RoR you're buying into a whole new development paradigm and it has taken me quite some time to "think" in this new development environment. There is a LOT of ground to cover here and the learning curve is much steeper than Alpha Five's.

                            I became interested in Rails after using Basecamp (a simple project management web app) from 37signals.com, which was written in RoR. It turns out, 37 Signals actually developed Rails for Basecamp. I was impressed with the applications ease of use, interface and scalability. I'd like to eventually use a Rails backend tied to a Flash/Flex or Adobe Air front end for an application I have in mind and that has been my primary motivation in pushing forward and learning Rails.

                            RoR utilizes the Model, View, Controller (MVC) architecture which isolates business logic and database abstraction (Model) from the user interface (View). The controller handles communication between the model and the view. This separation allows you to modify one area without affecting the other. It makes your programs easier to modify and test. It forces you to follow a proven development pattern that scales well when dealing with multiple programmers.

                            The Rails framework is open source, it's free and available for development on both the Mac and the PC. It has a huge worldwide community with many books, tutorials, plug-ins, etc. That said, be advised that mastering Rails is not a casual endeavor.

                            If you are interested in studying Rails, I suggest you look at the following website for installation guides and some excellent tutorials and podcasts : http://www.buildingwebapps.com/topic/5-ruby-on-rails

                            You can't go wrong learning to use Alpha Five for web development. It is the fastest and the most fun web development tool I've found. For a lot of small business web applications, it is probably the best tool to use (most bang for the buck). Everything you learn with Alpha will help you should you decide to look into other web technologies. It provides an excellent foundation for you to build on.
                            Bob Moore


                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Alpha Five V9 vs. Ruby on Rails

                              Thanks Bob - A useful summation.

                              I think one of the key differences is that Alpha Five has its own web server which is of particular interests for people (like me) who want to develop a single application for both desktop and internet use.

                              With Ajax now in the fold there is little that cannot be done via the web development model at desktop speeds - so this difference is no longer material.

                              With the coming event of clustered server, existing VPS support and perhaps a PHP model to come it is perhaps the most self-contained scalable development system for the web on the market today.
                              Mike Thomson

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