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Runtime Install

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    #1

    Runtime Install

    I will be doing an install of a runtime next week. This will be in a network environment although there will really only be three users and most likely very little concurrent use.

    There is a bit of an ambiguity in the Runtime documentation. On page 7, it says to
    1. install the application files on a shared folder on the server
    2. then install the runtime files on each user's PC
    3. then install the bootstrap application on each user's PC


    In the 'Creating a Bootstrap Application' section (page 22), it appears as if the bootstrap will install the shadow copies of the application for you, once the main copy of the appication is on the server. In other words, you don't need to manually install the runtimes locally, the bootstrap does this for you. What's up with that?

    Also, with regards to updating the application, if we update the application on the server, will the update (ie new forms, reports, tables, etc) cascade to the shadow copies?

    Thanks much.

    Eric
    Tags: None
    #2
    Re: Runtime Install

    Originally posted by sollasollew View Post
    it appears as if the bootstrap will install the shadow copies of the application for you, once the main copy of the appication is on the server. In other words, you don't need to manually install the runtimes locally, the bootstrap does this for you. What's up with that?
    The "shadow copies of the application" are not the "runtime".

    The "runtime" is the Alpha Five program. This must be installed on each workstation.

    The "shadow copies of the application" are shadow copies of the application you wrote. It also includes pointer files to the data on the server. The bootstrap program will help you get those copied to the workstation.

    This may help you understand what's going on: In essence, the bootstrap program is just a simplified way of (1) starting A5 on the workstation, (2) navigating to the server folder to start the application over the network directly, and (3) going to the A5 controlpanel to run the Network Optimize routine.

    If you know what you are doing AND have personal access to each workstation, I think it's easier to just go through steps 1-3 above than it is to create a bootstrap application. However, if you are distributing a generic app and won't have easy access to the computers, the bootstrap method will probably be easier in the long run.

    Originally posted by sollasollew View Post
    Also, with regards to updating the application, if we update the application on the server, will the update (ie new forms, reports, tables, etc) cascade to the shadow copies?
    It depends on how you set things up. If you want the workstations to automatically update (most people probably do), then set the network optimize choice to "Automatically refresh the shadow database" AND use a network optimize number. When you update the number, the workstation will see that the next time the workstation starts the app and update to the new version. That phrase in italics is important - if the users leave the application open all the time, they will continue to use the old version until they shut down the app and restart it. (In most cases the old version will continue to work IF you haven't moved fields around in your tables or resized them or changed their Type. This is one reason it's best to always add new fields at the end of the table. (I violated this "rule" of mine last week in a situation where I thought it would be safe. Big mistake! It wasn't safe and I had to spend an hour fixing the problems it caused.)

    The network optimize choices are on the "Options" tab. But that's really kind of a misnomer in this case. These really aren't "options" - they are "choices" that should be considered for every application.

    Comment

      #3
      Re: Runtime Install

      Well, my install did not work. I created a setup file and installed on the client's server. I ran the SAME installer on a client. I typed in the run time license number. The application installed with all the tables local. I closed the application (keeping A5 open) and then opened the copy on the server. The I went to the network optimizer and went through the process of creating a shadow DB. I then closed the application again and opened the DB from My Documents/Shadow/mydb.adb (or whatever the extension is).

      Performance dropped to unusable and on two machines, the applicaiton basically hung.

      Can anyone tell me what did I do wrong.

      Comment

        #4
        Re: Runtime Install

        To follow-up, maybe this is clearer:
        1. Created install package on development machine in my office
        2. Installed on client's server using the setup file generated above
        3. Installed local copies using the same setup file, on client PCs in my client's office
        4. THEN-> closed the application so that only A5 runtime was running
        5. Opened application (application.adb) residing on the server and ran network optimization wizard
        6. This created the following My Documents/Shadow/application.adb
        7. Opened My Documents/Shadow/application.adb


        Slow as molasses on a Minnesota winter day, to the extent that it basically hung.


        Eric

        Comment

          #5
          Re: Runtime Install

          How I would install your app:

          1. Wipe out everything that you have done as you have many files duplicated in wrong places.
          2. Presumably you followed advise here and created your app (forms, browses, data files, etc.) in one directory. Zip it up. There are no executables here. However, this is what the very first instruction in your frist post is talking about. Your app - no executables. Unzip this into a directory on your server. This is what the first item in your very first post is referring to.
          3. Using the runtime install files you received from Alpha, install the runtime software on one of the client machines. This is the executables and supprot files. This is what the second item in your very first post is referring to.
          4. Do the network optimize.
          5. Use Tools -> Create Shortcut to place a shortcut on the desktop. These last 2 steps are what the bootstrap in the third item in your very first post is referring to. The bootstrap can just automate the job for you if you have to install on many machines. You're only doing this a couple of times so keep it simple.
          6. Close Alpha and start everything from the shortcut. All should work correctly.

          This all just reiterates what Cal has said. As this is your first time doing this, it would be very beneficial for you to test these sort of things on a machine of your own and not a clients. You will then get an understanding of how the runtime setup works and should be able to grasp the whole process a little easier. You will also find many threads on the forum where others proclaim that it is easier and more flexible using third party install software such as Astrum.

          If it is still very slow, it could very well be some virus software continually checking the various files as they open and close. Search the forum as there are many numerous posts outlining this problem. Norton, especially, has been known to bring machines to their knees.

          Comment

            #6
            Re: Runtime Install

            Originally posted by Doug Page View Post
            How I would install your app:

            1. Wipe out everything that you have done as you have many files duplicated in wrong places.
            2. Presumably you followed advise here and created your app (forms, browses, data files, etc.) in one directory. Zip it up. There are no executables here. However, this is what the very first instruction in your frist post is talking about. Your app - no executables. Unzip this into a directory on your server. This is what the first item in your very first post is referring to.
            3. Using the runtime install files you received from Alpha, install the runtime software on one of the client machines. This is the executables and supprot files. This is what the second item in your very first post is referring to.
            4. Do the network optimize.
            5. Use Tools -> Create Shortcut to place a shortcut on the desktop. These last 2 steps are what the bootstrap in the third item in your very first post is referring to. The bootstrap can just automate the job for you if you have to install on many machines. You're only doing this a couple of times so keep it simple.
            6. Close Alpha and start everything from the shortcut. All should work correctly.

            This all just reiterates what Cal has said. As this is your first time doing this, it would be very beneficial for you to test these sort of things on a machine of your own and not a clients. You will then get an understanding of how the runtime setup works and should be able to grasp the whole process a little easier. You will also find many threads on the forum where others proclaim that it is easier and more flexible using third party install software such as Astrum.

            If it is still very slow, it could very well be some virus software continually checking the various files as they open and close. Search the forum as there are many numerous posts outlining this problem. Norton, especially, has been known to bring machines to their knees.

            Comment

              #7
              Re: Runtime Install

              Let me see if I get what you're saying.
              1. Don't install the runtime on the server, just the application files.
              2. Install from a zip. (Why?)
              3. Don't use the installation maker program Alpha supplies. Install the runtime and application on the client machines manually. (Why?)
              4. The desktop shortcut will be to the dba file located in My Documents/Shadow

              Sorry to be a pain about this but I am really limited in my ability to test this on our internal network.

              Thanks again,

              Eric

              Comment

                #8
                Re: Runtime Install

                Originally posted by sollasollew View Post
                Let me see if I get what you're saying.
                1. Don't install the runtime on the server, just the application files.
                2. Install from a zip. (Why?)
                3. Don't use the installation maker program Alpha supplies. Install the runtime and application on the client machines manually. (Why?)
                4. The desktop shortcut will be to the dba file located in My Documents/Shadow
                Sorry to be a pain about this but I am really limited in my ability to test this on our internal network.

                Thanks again,

                Eric
                The reason why I suggest this method is so that you get a better understanding of what goes where. The zip is just a really simplistic way to demonstrate that only the app files that you created go on the server and not the Alpha exe's and their support files. The installation maker supplied with Alpha does work, I just figured as a newbie to the process this would help you understand how to better use it later. The whole process as outlined above should only take you a few minutes to do. I would suggest you try it and then see what other questions might arise.

                I would also suggest using the same directory structure as another problem for people just getting used to networked apps is that they unknowingly create code that contains hard coded paths.

                Hang in there Eric, it will all start to come together.

                Comment

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