Pulling my hair out

[trackmanpete]

Re: Pulling my hair out

If you are interested in the desktop operation, I would suggest you download Alpha Sports from the sample folder you can find in the a5v9 folder. You will find that all works properly there. If you are in a hurry, I don't think Alpha will be all that helpful unless you are just designing a simple address database, etc. The hardest thing about Alpha is changing the way you think and use databases, especially when coming from Access and/or Filemaker. Yes, there are some problems with Alpha, but if you are coming from Access or Filemaker, you know there are many problems with both of those programs as well. The big difference is that this Forum and Alpha are responsive to issues, with this Forum being a godsend.

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: Pulling my hair out

...The button to open "Field Rules" and other buttons in the Control Panel do not respond, I have no idea what to do next.

Make sure that you first click on a table, then field rules.

So I think I will punt and give the ball back to A5, ask for a refund and get on with my business. I am already late due to my asking for time to explore A5 to see if it might offer a better solution than Access or FM.

Alpha works just fine. If you encounter basic problems such as the one you describe, that always suggests either a very simple misunderstanding on the user's part, or a bad install. With a little patience you can get through it. But, if you're "out of time", no one can help w. that one.

[davidv43]

Re: Pulling my hair out

Peter,

while I agree Access and FM have problems, they don't seem to be as pervasive as A% in it's current build. Another thing today ... I added a field and a field rule to calculate a difference between dates - then press the re-evaluate field rules and I get a popup asking if I want to mark invalid records. When I browse the table, the first 15 records calculating correctly, but when it encountered a record where one of the dates is missing, the program quit trying to enforce the rules for all the other records.

Of course, there was no error message saying it didn't just skip the bad record and continue... this is frustrating!!!!

You expect certain behaviors from a program and when you don't get it, it is very difficult to find out what to do now.

Dave

[davidv43]

Re: Pulling my hair out

let me correct the last post... the browse simply doesn't show those fields unless you click on the field ... weird!!

[davidv43]

Re: Pulling my hair out

Alright, so the answer to this little riddle is ....
if one of the two fields upon which the calculation is blank, the result will be some huge number. If that number doesn't fit in the size field I have as the calculated field, it won't give you an error, it will just fail.

[trackmanpete]

Re: Pulling my hair out

David:
I still consider myself a rookie, despite spending quite a few hours every day "playing" with a5v9. What I find happening to me too often is that I get a bit overconfident in my abilities of mastering Alpha, especially when using the Action Script, which is really like having super training wheels for my two wheel bike. I get lulled into thinking I am doing everything correctly. Many times I find that I have skipped a step or don't fully understand the process and when something goes wrong, I immediately think there is a bug, since there are a number of posts discussing bugs. I am trying to learn to be more careful with my coding and also trying to not jump to conclusions.

When I worked with Access I was left to my own learning curve and became frustrated by having to buy lots of books that either were too simplistic or dealt with complex workarounds due to Access internal programming issues. I gave up on Filemaker after v4 because it just didn't do much of what I needed to do and I haven't seen too much improvement since then.

So, I do agree with posters who would like to see a really stable Alpha 5 and finally get the browse issues under control, but I also know that many issues that begin as possible "bugs" turn out to be my lack of skill in manipulating this excellent program to do what I want it to do.

I have seen from your posts that you are quite knowledgeable with Alpha, so I am not trying to say anything negative about your posts, just making some observations that I have found as I keep trying to learn.

Just my thoughts as I yearn for spring to come along...

[davidv43]

Re: Pulling my hair out

I think the definition of "bug" is rather vague. My feeling is that things which are errors should be flagged as errors. If I try to put a huge number in a field which is too small, the program should beep at me, not simply fail to do what I asked it to do with no feedback.

However, I do agree after wrestling with Access and always coming back here, that many times "bugs" are simply my misunderstanding the way the program is working. Still, the program should be relatively intuitive and consistent. If I eliminate the calculated field and simply try to update the field using an update operation, the program correctly tells me that the field I'm trying to post to isn't big enough. It should do that when I try to do it with field rules too.

BTW, why don't field rules save when you exist field rules screen or at least prompt you to save, like every other window in the Microsoft world? How many times do I change a field rule and forget to formally save the changes????

Guess what I'm saying it that instead of new "features", I'd be the happiest guy in the world if A5 worked consistent with all other windows programs (scrolling consistently, e.g.) and was internally consistent.

Dave

[trackmanpete]

Re: Pulling my hair out

BTW, why don't field rules save when you exit field rules screen or at least prompt you to save, like every other window in the Microsoft world? How many times do I change a field rule and forget to formally save the changes????

You are right. I have been caught closing without saving a number of times. Seems to me that is the only window (perhaps the report window) where this is the case. More than likely an oversight.

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: Pulling my hair out

Of course, there was no error message saying it didn't just skip the bad record and continue... this is frustrating!!!!

You expect certain behaviors from a program and when you don't get it, it is very difficult to find out what to do now.

Dave,

I don't disagree w. you. But my response to the person above was merely pointing out that you CAN (of course) edit field rules, etc. That person either misunderstands something very simple or has a bad install. As you know, A5 is a FULLY functional program. Sure, there are bugs, quirks and glitches. Nobody likes them. I agree, fix 'em. I have vented many times my own frustrations on this board. But to suggest that even the most basic functionality in Alpha is non-functional (as did that person) is patently ridiculous. I think you know that very well. The VAST majority of features in A5 work as advertised. I just don't want some newbie to think that A5 is a fundamentally flawed program where even the moist basic features don't work. It works just fine, bugs, quirks and glitches not withstanding.

[Tom Cone Jr]

Re: Pulling my hair out

If I eliminate the calculated field and simply try to update the field using an update operation, the program correctly tells me that the field I'm trying to post to isn't big enough. It should do that when I try to do it with field rules too.

I agree, that would be very nice. However, has anyone ever submitted a new features wishlist item on this? Has anyone ever submitted a formal bug report?

When defining a new field rule calc expression I personally believe it's the developer's responsibility to verify that it can be evaluated for all records in the table. At minimum that means scanning the table to see if all field values required by the calc expression are present. If a needed field value is empty, why doesn't the developer anticipate that and adapt the calc field expression accordingly? Proper use of the IF() statement could be used here, could it not? At some point the developer must take responsibility for the results that occur when we instruct Alpha to do something that is impossible. I guess what I'm saying is that the methods Alpha uses to report errors can certainly be improved, and we need to offer suggestions and feedback to Alpha accordingly. But, in this case since an empty numeric field will have a huge value it would be prudent to design the data input routines so that no records are saved with empty numeric fields when those fields will be used in subsequent calculations.

-- tom

[davidv43]

Re: Pulling my hair out

Good point, Tom. I wasn't aware that one could use IF statements in the field rules expressions. That's a good technique... will try it. However, I still think that if the program is smart enough to stop an illegal operation in one place, it should stop it elsewhere.

dave

[Stan Mathews]

Re: Pulling my hair out

I wasn't aware that one could use IF statements in the field rules expressions.

Don't confuse the if-then-else conditional control structure with the if() statement (function).

[davidv43]

Re: Pulling my hair out

that works very nicely! Thank you! I didn't know you could do that!

dave