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Pulling my hair out

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    #16
    Re: Pulling my hair out

    Originally posted by Scott_Walker View Post
    I am really shocked by the lack of quality control in what is coming out as software ready to be put in a production environment.

    Maybe this is how it's always been but I can't even begin to consider deploying an application based on Alpha Five with the current level of instability in even some of the most basic functionality.

    After a couple of months of exploring Alpha Five version 9, I must say I LIKE this software. I am IMPRESSED by the features. I see the incredible potential of the applications I could create. But I just can't make use of it until I am sure it is rock solid. When I create an application and sell it to a customer, to them I am responsible. They don't care what tools I used. If there are a lot of problems, they blame me. My reputation is on the line. I must be sure that what I am selling them is very reliable.

    So I ask you guys who have been around for years: Is this as good as it gets (stability & reliability wise) or is the current situation simply an anomaly that you expect to be shortly rectified?
    I can't speak for v9, per se, since I'm still on v8. But as a long time Alpha user, having run my business on it for many years, this is my take:

    Alpha is in general rock solid for the end user. That is to say, if you develop a db, and it works as expected to your satisfaction, you deploy successfully to your end users. No problem. Here's the rub:
    • As expressed here, patches come out in a constant stream and they frequently break something that previously worked. With any luck, Alpha issues a new patch that fixes the problem - usually.
    • When a new version comes out, those sometimes break things that used to work. With any luck, Alpha issues a new patch that fixes the problem, sometimes.
    • But sometimes when a new version comes out, they rewired something in a fundamental way. There is no patch, because as far as Alpha is concerned, it's not "broken". That forces you, the developer, to recode, redo whatever.
    • And, of course, when a new version comes out, as has been said here, the previous version is "dead" - as far as any more bug fixes. Nice.
    Moral of the story: if you have developed a working, satisfactory end solution, don't patch, don't upgrade - at least not for that particular "live" product.

    As far as the constant "breakage" is concerned, this has been discussed ad nauseam in the past: "Alpha is a small company", "they have limited resources", etc, etc, etc. That doesn't make it "right", it's just the way it is. Should they change their operating policy? Sure they "should", but they haven't yet. Does that mean you shouldn't develop in Alpha? No. But one needs to observe the above deployment caveat. Alpha is powerful and flexible. Build it, test it, then stick with that version/patch - at least until you really need the new features of the latest release.

    My 2-cents.
    ---
    P.S. If someone knows of an easier to use database product that is as powerful as Alpha - without the bugs, let us know. I'm sure a lot of people besides me would be interested.
    Peter
    AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

    [email protected]
    https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


    Comment


      #17
      Re: Pulling my hair out

      Me too

      Seems like many issues come up with upgrades and patches; works today, and maybe tomorrow.
      I have found some new features which I like but the pain for these makes me wonder if it is worth it.
      I am too busy running a business and don't have time for the problems that come up with upgrades and patches. I don't even have time to explore the menu's to see what new features are available.
      I have generally upgraded just so I could be current however I think my upgrades will stop with 9.

      The list is great and thanks again top all who assist.

      Comment


        #18
        Re: Pulling my hair out

        There's an old saying that says "don't fix it if it ain't broke!".

        That's true of operational software used in business. Before you move forward to a new version or patch, you should test it thoroughly before moving it to live data.

        If you have to move to a new version, 1st run it with the newer version with as few changes as possible. Be prepared to move the data back to the previous version. Once tested, then start using new features.

        Up till version 9, Alpha Five has been pretty rock solid (once the Vista issues were resolved) with just some odd bugs here and there. Most were repairable by a patch which generally caused few new problems.

        Version 9 has not seemed to be as robust in this respect. I suspect it's because underlying portions are being rewritten to allow future expansion. Unfortunately, there is always some pain with this kind of growth, which is why you should take care in the upgrade/patch process. I'm sure Alpha Five V9 will get there and once more become consistently solid from patch to patch.

        Alpha still seems to be the best bang for the buck, so don't abandon just yet the ship because of some rough waters!
        Regards,

        Ira J. Perlow
        Computer Systems Design


        CSDA A5 Products
        New - Free CSDA DiagInfo - v1.39, 30 Apr 2013
        CSDA Barcode Functions

        CSDA Code Utility
        CSDA Screen Capture


        Comment


          #19
          Re: Pulling my hair out

          I agree with you Ira, but the dangling of the proverbial browse shaped carrot was too much to resist! Had to try the new build, it lasted about 2 hours before I reverted back!

          Comment


            #20
            Re: Pulling my hair out

            Originally posted by MikeC View Post
            G(J)e(o)ff, :)

            I also agree with this---and what makes it worse is that it is the new users and complete "non-programmers" that feel this the worst. When something stops working or never did while these users create code, they have no idea if it is their code or a hiccup in Alpha....and as a result, like in Pete's situation, there can be a lot of wasted time and also unneeded frustration which is the least of the problems really--I can see this very much adversely affecting Alpha's reputation and sales.
            Right on Mike. But, it is not just new users. I experience this time dump myself with Alpha on a semi-frequent basis. This costs me MONEY. Now, I am used to the fact that if something appears "out of the ordinary" I will just scrap what I am doing and either try to go about it another way or abandon that feature all together. A lot of times it is things that I know my customers would like but they won't know any difference if it is not in there. But, I could shine more in my profession if the software worked as advertised.

            It is getting pretty DARN OLD wasting my time with Alpha's bugs...

            An example of this is the built in Tree Control - you are supposed to be able to attach images to the Tree Control. That feature does not even begin to work. I have approached it in multiple ways with no joy. So, I posted here and Tom Cone confirmed that the feature did not work. I submitted a bug report (which takes my time). I heard nothing. I submitted a bug report again 2 weeks later and asked to PLEASE be contacted regarding this issue. I have heard nothing. I know the standard line on this board is to "Submit a bug report". All of that takes time if you make an example and be complete like they want. The problem is - at this point I feel like I am doing their beta testing. If one of my customers asked me twice about a feature they paid for and did not work - I would A….be embarrassed and B.....address their concerns immediately. I don't want to hear the - "they are a small company" phrase either. When you buy their software - Alpha does not say....”Please buy our software but keep in mind we are small so there are a lot of bugs you'll just have to deal with”. It makes it increasingly difficult to submit a bug report when there is no acknowledgement of it or if a fix is coming. My guess is Version 10 is coming soon because Alpha’s total lack of presence here is just what they did when V9 was coming out. When V9 came out then they were here every day fixing things and that has gradually dropped off to no presence at all– the same way when the switch from V8 to V9 occurred.

            Scott Walker.......After a couple of months of exploring Alpha Five version 9, I must say I LIKE this software. I am IMPRESSED by the features. I see the incredible potential of the applications I could create........ When I create an application and sell it to a customer, to them I am responsible. They don't care what tools I used. If there are a lot of problems, they blame me. My reputation is on the line. I must be sure that what I am selling them is very reliable.
            I completely agree Scott.

            I think Alpha should definitely concentrate on fixing the features in the product versus trying to be bleeding edge. Unfortunately, a lot of us users are the ones doing the bleeding.

            I don't want to call their baby ugly because I really like the software and as I have said before…..there is some true genius in its design. But, it is just TOO BUGGY right now. I am hoping every day that Version 10 comes out LATE next year so it will give them time to fix Version 9. As has been mentioned earlier, if their past behavior holds true Version 9 will have NO SUPPORT once V10 hits the market. That being said, I will continue to use it because I have so much time invested in it…but as Peter says:

            If someone knows of an easier to use database product that is as powerful as Alpha - without the bugs, let us know. I'm sure a lot of people besides me would be interested.
            These are definitely words to live by Peter.

            Peter Greulich…….Moral of the story: if you have developed a working, satisfactory end solution, don't patch, don't upgrade - at least not for that particular "live" product.

            Regards,

            Jeff
            Last edited by jkletrovets; 12-02-2008, 02:38 PM.

            Comment


              #21
              Re: Pulling my hair out

              I 100% agree with MikeC

              I have been using trying A5 for 2 months now coming from FM. I have yet to test it on a network and see how it goes. Up to now here are my 2 cents:

              - The more I use A5, the more I am impressed with its features but also I the more apprehensive I become. The product is unquestionable unstable, unreliable and has many bugs. This is not acceptable. Alphasoftware seems to think that it is by bringing the price down that they'll expand their market. This is dumb. I have seen A5 standard advertised at $100. Competitive products go for $300. Guess which product sells more? No one is interested in an unstable, unreliable product not even at $50.

              Case in point: when I offered to do some work to a potential client in A5; 1) they never heard of it (this is not a bad thing in itself), 2) they went to A5 site and checked the board, saw all these complaints about the instability of A5 (this is a terrible thing in itself). They response was: thank you and bye.

              A5 seems to believe that it is by incrementing the version number periodically that they'll make their product more popular. I have no market data but if we assume that a site's traffic reflects a product's popularity here are some statistics:
              FM Forum has 47,000 members, A5: 9,000
              A few minutes ago there were 68 users browsing FM forum site, A5 forum: 7

              I don't know if anyone has compared in details features between the 2 products, but I suspect that it is in the order of 1 to 3or4 (A5 has 3 to 4 times more features that FM), and I doubt that FM will ever have all the features A5 presently has.

              All I can say to Alphasoftware is this: do not bash the competition when you product is wobbly. Concentrate your efforts on making your current product unquestionably stable and reliable. As a user I am not interested in the highest version number. I am very interested in seeing Version 9 turned into an unquestionable stable and reliable Version 9, and keep it that way, do not add more bells and whistles. It is only by making your product stable that you will expand your market.

              Comment


                #22
                Re: Pulling my hair out

                Originally posted by Peter.Greulich View Post
                I can't speak for v9, per se, since I'm still on v8. But as a long time Alpha user, having run my business on it for many years, this is my take:

                Alpha is in general rock solid for the end user. That is to say, if you develop a db, and it works as expected to your satisfaction, you deploy successfully to your end users. No problem. Here's the rub:
                • As expressed here, patches come out in a constant stream and they frequently break something that previously worked. With any luck, Alpha issues a new patch that fixes the problem - usually.
                • When a new version comes out, those sometimes break things that used to work. With any luck, Alpha issues a new patch that fixes the problem, sometimes.
                • But sometimes when a new version comes out, they rewired something in a fundamental way. There is no patch, because as far as Alpha is concerned, it's not "broken". That forces you, the developer, to recode, redo whatever.
                • And, of course, when a new version comes out, as has been said here, the previous version is "dead" - as far as any more bug fixes. Nice.
                Moral of the story: if you have developed a working, satisfactory end solution, don't patch, don't upgrade - at least not for that particular "live" product.

                As far as the constant "breakage" is concerned, this has been discussed ad nauseam in the past: "Alpha is a small company", "they have limited resources", etc, etc, etc. That doesn't make it "right", it's just the way it is. Should they change their operating policy? Sure they "should", but they haven't yet. Does that mean you shouldn't develop in Alpha? No. But one needs to observe the above deployment caveat. Alpha is powerful and flexible. Build it, test it, then stick with that version/patch - at least until you really need the new features of the latest release.

                My 2-cents.
                ---
                P.S. If someone knows of an easier to use database product that is as powerful as Alpha - without the bugs, let us know. I'm sure a lot of people besides me would be interested.



                Peter,

                Thanks for your input. I am at a stage now where I have about $500 invested in Alpha Five (including training manuals & videos) and a couple of thousand dollars of my time learning. I anticipate investing another couple of hundred thousand dollars in time learning & developing an application for resale. Thus my concern.

                I agree that if you get something stable, you should probably deploy that and not necessarily deploy every patch that comes out. But my concern is that in the last two months of my involvement with Alpha Five, I have not seen ANY build that I would consider stable. I really like this software and I want to use it, I'm just kinda terrified of an endless cycle of problems where I cannot get anything out the door to a end user (and thus get paid).

                No amount of new features can override the need for dependable operation when it comes to a company's database. It is the core of their existence. I guess I will just have to take a wait & see approach over the next couple of months and see how things evolve.

                Again, thank you for your input.

                Regards,

                Scott

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: Pulling my hair out

                  All I know is � I have a business to run, and Alpha Five is getting in my way.
                  I�m sure no-one will listen to this � I�m really just venting my disappointment a bit � but I�m also off now to download Filemaker.
                  Well, speaking from experience, I have used Filemaker and A5 for 4 years now. I am not an expert by any means, and both have lots to offer. However, with the guys who are on this forum regularly, A5 is what I am using for my projects now. There are bugs in any development environment, but fewer ones in A5 that I have found. Just as an example, I have needed to be able to update my apps easily and keep the data from being lost when I do. Filemaker requires some real complex "separation models" to achieve this, where A5 has... Cal Locklin! as well as other geniuses that help in ways Filemaker developers want a fortune to help. Try to get ANY developer addons for less that $200.00 for filemaker...not gonna happen, but A5 developers have reasonable prices to help you. For me it is cost that keeps me here.
                  Kevin G. Timberlake
                  Marvel Illusions

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: Pulling my hair out

                    Have you at least tried the "Submit Bug Report" option in the menu if it's a genuine bug, or even the extensive online help, or actually SEARCHING the forum?

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: Pulling my hair out

                      Originally posted by NoeticCC View Post
                      Have you at least tried the "Submit Bug Report" option in the menu if it's a genuine bug, or even the extensive online help, or actually SEARCHING the forum?
                      I have already submitted a couple of bug reports AFTER some of the more experienced hands on this board confirmed it's a bug. The first was "fixed" in a patch a few weeks later, but it still does now work correctly. When I sent in another report a few weeks ago, I have not heard anything.

                      For me, the scary part is that (IMO) I have found bugs in what I would consider the core functionality of the software. I would expect some bugs with a little used feature or esoteric functionality. I would not expect them with things like being allowed to save a record when all required fields on the form have not been filled in.

                      I know there are always bugs in all software (including mine). I recently had a long time customer ask me if she was being unreasonable to expect that when I sent her a program update that there would be NO bugs in it. I told her that YES, she was being unreasonable. I told her that every software program I had ever used over the last 30 years had bugs. So, it's all a matter of degree.

                      Basically, as it stands now, I would say that Alpha Five has more bugs, in more common functionality, then I would have expected. I would also say, that I am more excited about Alpha Five's capabilities than I expected to be. I feel that Alpha Five has the potential to be a home run but without the reliability I need I will never get up to bat.

                      Regards,

                      Scott

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: Pulling my hair out

                        One other aspect that I have not seen mentioned in this thread, which I'm sure the guys at Alpha Towers should realise, with so many users saying they are reverting back to an earlier version, the free 30 day trial download with this current flaw will do them no good in converting new users to buy this software if is broke before they buy.

                        Yes we all know that Vista has had lots of bugs and MS should not of released it till it was a solid program, that seems to be the way things are with software these days, but should it be?

                        I believe V9 should be made as rock solid as can be, before V10 is released, it will do the reputation of Alpha software no good if they do.

                        That my 2 pence worth.
                        Regards
                        Keith Hubert
                        Alpha Guild Member
                        London.
                        KHDB Management Systems
                        Skype = keith.hubert


                        For your day-to-day Needs, you Need an Alpha Database!

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: Pulling my hair out

                          Change management is not only a responsibility of the Software vendor. It is not realistic to expect the possible impact of any change can be foreseen by developers for any application implemented with the system they develop...

                          If you have a live production system you should (regression) test a change first before implementing it in your production system. See a comment I gave to somebody pulling his hair out also:

                          http://msgboard.alphasoftware.com/al...ad.php?t=72327

                          regards, Ron

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Re: Pulling my hair out

                            Thank you everyone above � a very unexpected and must say touching response. Everyone, including me (probably the least able A5 practitioner here) has a strong affinity for the product. I think we�re all rooting for it: but that of course adds to the level of frustration when expectations aren�t met.

                            I played around with Filemaker this pm, it�s not for me, and not a patch on the promise of A5.

                            Let�s hope A5 management are listening.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Re: Pulling my hair out

                              We sincerely apologize for the problem in the latest Build!


                              in the meantime please go to http://downloads.alphasoftware.com/a...nate/index.htm

                              and then

                              please go back to

                              Build 1847_3216

                              (this is near the end of the page)

                              Our plan is release a fixed New Build Tomorrow
                              Richard Rabins
                              Co Chairman
                              Alpha Software

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: Pulling my hair out

                                Originally posted by Richard Rabins View Post
                                We sincerely apologize for the problem in the latest Build!
                                Richard,

                                No disrespect intended...but while the latest build has compounded the problems.......the issues raised in this thread are NOT LIMITED to just the LAST build. The sentiments you are reading here are, for the most part, pointing out more of a systemic problem with V9.

                                Regards,

                                Jeff

                                Comment

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