User Interface design ideas?

[jaryder]

Re: User Interface design ideas?

Their tree control is significantly underpowered, the tab control is fine if a 1987 interface will do, their browse isn't half bad, but lacks the hierarchical collapse/expand of their competitors (Brilliant database), and the splitter bar doesn't exist.

So any serious Alpha Developer starts a project with one arm tied behind the other given these limitations.

First of all I have downloaded and looked at Brilliant and to call them a competitor is stretching it a little. You are limited to 32 tables (they call forms) and everything is stored in one file (that is scarry). If you were developing a simple little databases then it has it's place and if I that was my market I would use it. I am developing more high end industry specific applications so to our customers it more about functionality then look and feel. Heck they are still running character based applications while we re-write it for windows.

Bob, I am not trying to start a fight but my question to you is since you place so much importance on appearance and are so critical about Alpha's lack of appearance and lack of response of addressing it, why are you sill developing in Alpha?

[rmcgaffic]

Re: User Interface design ideas?

Jeff,

Please don't understand me. I well appreciate what a capable tool Alpha Five is. But as I explained to a forum member who privately posed a similar question to me last summer, I don't view that I'm being critical of Alpha Five.

Rather I want them to be better.

Most Alpha developers have limited experience with high end enterprise software. I am fortunate to have worked with the good stuff for nearly 15 years now, and I've got to tell you, it raises your expectations.

Yes, I have looked at Brilliant database and am staying with Alpha Five. As immature a product as Brilliant is, it offers:

1. An MS Outlook style calendar already built into the application
2. A collapsible/expandable hierarchical grid already built into the application.

I very much want these kind of "out of the box" capabilities in my development tool. This is what easy applicaiton development is all about.

Failing that, I am willing to use third party controls if compatible ones can be found. I have been saying for months that Alpha could not handle the industry gold standard CodeJock CalendarPro control. Dr. Peter Wayne, XBasic guru extraordinare, concurred with me that the problem exists for a form, although not for XDialog. He reported it to Alpha as a bug, so there is a slight chance it may be included as a fix in Version 10.

Bob McGaffic
Pittsburgh, PA

[gmeredith17]

Re: User Interface design ideas?

Jeff,

I concur with Bob and I know from my own posts that it is all to easy to come across as negative when really all we want is that bit of spit and polish to really make Alpha5 stand out from the crowd. Alpha5's core controls need to be kept up to date, sadly many have been left for a number of years with minimal improvements. Yes you can create a good powerful database application with okay but dated looks and interaction. I keep on about this but I still can't believe that Alpha hasn't added the ability to drag and drop. This isn't state of the art stuff but because it has been left so long I think it has made it hard to introduce the improvements. Now it is fairly obvious the web side of things is getting the lion share of resources. This may well be the right commercial decision but I don't thing desktop is dead and if they haven't the resources they should look at ways of ensuring that third party tools work with Alpha5 or of loading the development to 3rd party.

With all this being said it doesn't make Alpha5 a poor product just one lacking in certain areas.

[JPFromtally]

Re: User Interface design ideas?

Bob's concerns are valid, appreciated and shared by many, including myself. Alpha Five is marketed as a RAD tool - it says so on their homepage.

If that's the case then I shouldn't have to write hundreds of lines of xbasic to conjure a categorized browse or a simple Outlook style tree menu. Heck, I could just learn .Net if I'm going to go through all that hassle.

The original thread title was about interface design. Say you steer the small db crowd away because they find the UI creation tools not as attractive as FileMaker. Does Alpha tell them to go somewhere else? That's a lot of lost revenue.

[RCarvalho]

Re: User Interface design ideas?

The original thread title was about interface design.

So here's a sample of the interface that our company uses.

Say you steer the small db crowd away because they find the UI creation tools not as attractive as FileMaker. Does Alpha tell them to go somewhere else?

You know JP, we're all assuming that with better tools that we are guaranteeing success. That is not always the case. Just because a person has the latest version of Photoshop doesn't mean that individual will be producing better imagery.

I think with v8, Alpha has provided a decent toolset for producing appealing interfaces. (check out the second post to this thread). The rest is up to the database designer.

When I look at what I am able to produce using genies and snippets of code I find in this forum as compared to skilled programmers, I am humbled that the limitation might not be with what A5 can do but with me.

I think the same holds true for interface design.

Rui

[StevenMcLean]

Re: User Interface design ideas?

Wow, that is impressive. When I originally started this post, I was looking for design ideas. Things got a bit off track, but has been interesting nevertheless. Posts as yours was what I was wanting to see. It looks like you have an extensive application as well.

Steve

[rmcgaffic]

Re: User Interface design ideas?

Rui,

Can you share with us how you were able to blur sensitive client information in your screen print?

Your application looks good as you have
1. Used only a few colors (black, two shades of gray)
2. Got your margins even
3. Used a single font in different sizes and bold/regular

Very simple, but much better than the average form posted on this forum.

Here's a tiny detail you may not be aware of:

Look how nice your memo fields look at the bottom of the Project Open and Define form. The pencil is discretely placed at the top of the scroll arrow and the pencil icon looks like a pencil.

These fields are dead givewaways that you are using V8.

In V9 Alpha regressed, and did two things that need to be reversed, in my opinion:

1. Placed the icon at the right not top of the scroll arrow
2. Used a really, really crummy icon that in another post I described as "fly droppings". See "Improvements to Memo Field Edit XDialog" in Wish List.

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to achieve the appearance of your form's memo fields in Version 10?

Bob McGaffic
Pittsburgh, PA

[StevenMcLean]

Re: User Interface design ideas?

Hi Bob, he did mention it was v8. This is the type of ideas I was looking to see. I am sure a nice interface is attainable with some work.

Steve

[Tom Henkel]

Re: User Interface design ideas?

ALthough it is not a web-based interface, our "application" is actually one main menu that calls numerous other appications which, when closed, return back to the main menu.

When the desktop shortcut is clicked, we present a user sign in dialog which must be filled in prior to access. When the user signs in and is authenticated, a main menu is presented to them, with restrictions as to where they can go based on our internal security.

Tom

Just a note...

This is the main information system for a 200+ user organization.

[RCarvalho]

Re: User Interface design ideas?

Can you share with us how you were able to blur sensitive client information in your screen print?

Photoshop (not the latest version though):D

These fields are dead givewaways that you are using V8.

You're right, we purchased v9, implemented it for a week then went back to v8. Waiting for the "final patch" before v10 is released. I have noticed certain "interface quirks" and I will have to make visual adjustments to accommodate.

[Finian Lennon]

Re: User Interface design ideas?

That's a very nice design indeed. I have to ask, what is the font?

[RCarvalho]

Re: User Interface design ideas?

That's a very nice design indeed. I have to ask, what is the font?

Lucida Sans Unicode

[timnoakes]

Re: User Interface design ideas?

Hello,

I think peoples expectations and comments are way to high and a little harsh.

Alpha5 is an incredible development platform for producing scalable web applications..

There isn't a single development platform out that provides the functionality that Alpha5 does with a complete graphical suite.

People must recognisee that if you want the functionality that Alpha5 provides and need the graphical presence then learn the basics of 'HTML' + 'CSS' and design your mocks in Adobe Fireworks etc. You'll be amazed how good your web apps will begin to look . Remember the Graphical aspect should be separated from the functional aspect when developing websites(apps).

Design your site so you can see it visually, replicate the design and layout in Alpha and begin developing the functionality. Takes a little more time but the end results are fantastic.

We don't want Alphasoftware to produce a hybridbeast! Let them continue building on the development platform front and leave the graphical aspect to Abode etc. Alpha cant compete with Adobe and noone can compete with Alphasoftware.

Many Thanks

Tim

[gmeredith17]

Re: User Interface design ideas?

People must recognisee that if you want the functionality that Alpha5 provides and need the graphical presence then learn the basics of 'HTML' + 'CSS' and design your mocks in Adobe Fireworks etc. You'll be amazed how good your web apps will begin to look . Remember the Graphical aspect should be separated from the functional aspect when developing websites(apps).

Tim - this is the desktop forum not web. Many of the comments are to do with the Alpha 5 controls themselves which can only be improved by Alpha themselves. There have been a number of times where Alphas attention to detail is lacking and in some areas they have failed to keep up with modern control performance and GUI appearance. Maybe the comments appear harsh but you will notice most contributors perceiver with Alpha because overall it is a powerful product. It just lacks a little polish and general TLC in certain areas. These things need highlighting otherwise Alpha would continue oblivious to the frustrations it is causing some of its users and it has to be said many voicing these issues are relatively new users so it would suggest that Alpha may be putting new users off because of these issues.