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24-hour Time format

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    24-hour Time format

    Hi

    I've searched for an answer to this for a long time.

    Alpha5 defaults to a 12-hour time format (AM / PM) - why, I don't know when the rest of the world is quite happy with 24-hr.

    This is of particular importance in my own industry (Security Services) where 24-hour is mandatory - indeed, it is considered a potential danger to use the 12-hour clock.

    Enough of the whingeing - my problem is that, in our operating room we have around 30 PCs , 60 operators on differing shifts, all compiling time tracking data on Alpha Databases, and logging on to potentially different workstations each day / night.

    To compound, we have a fairly large staff turnover, due to 2x12 hr shift operation.
    Every time a new operator starts Alpha Runtime / moves to a different pc (possible permutation = 30 to the power of 40 approx) someone has to change the "view -settings -preferences - time format" to 24 hr (delete the AM ..!)

    a. Is there a simple way to set the default at 24-hour
    b. Is there a script that will do that automatically ( as Operating staff do not have access to Control Panel and as this can happen at any time of day/night/weekend, management are not always on hand).
    I have remote access to all the workstations, but of course, they must be logged on in the individual operators' name.

    Any help appreciated....

    ..... and - while I'm having a moan (ALPHA STAFF) - date format works fine for USA etc - can allowance be made to also set the default date/time to dd/mm/yy (UK)?
    The hours I've spent getting Alpha to speak to SQL and Excel because of the date handling you would not believe .....

    John G

    Any help (and Valium) appreciated.

    #2
    Re: 24-hour Time format

    Hi John,

    I got this from the interactive window.

    ?left(time(),5)
    = "18:42"

    Would that not help as a calculated field?
    Regards
    Keith Hubert
    Alpha Guild Member
    London.
    KHDB Management Systems
    Skype = keith.hubert


    For your day-to-day Needs, you Need an Alpha Database!

    Comment


      #3
      Re: 24-hour Time format

      Does changing the regional time setting preference in Windows help?

      Comment


        #4
        Re: 24-hour Time format

        Maybe it just me, but we here in the US also have a 24hour clock in Alpha.

        Code:
        ?left(time(),5)
        = "13:55"
        The time stamp, if you use it, shows AM/PM, but the clock is 24 hour.

        We log date and tim in many of our applications, and it alwas stamps with the 24 hour clock.

        Tom

        Comment


          #5
          Re: 24-hour Time format

          Thanks to both gents for the quick responses!

          Sadly, neither one solves the problem.
          I appreciate (Keith) that your suggestion will convert the field, and have used it on many occasions.
          My problem (independent of Windows settings, Tom) occurs when a (new-to-that-pc) operator fires up the runtime for the first time in that pc/opertor mix.
          Then, any A5_timestamp() appears as AM or PM. As reports are mailed and written to SQL continuously, the PC becomes unuseable until the "view-settings-prefs-time format" can be accessed and, as explained, that is not always possible.

          I need to set Alpha so that when first run, the default time is 24-hour, not the (to me) unuseable 12-hour format, or at least enable a button for the operator to run a script that sets the 24-hour.
          Runtime is installed on the PCs for 'All Users' but it seems that Alpha forces 12-hour for new operator profile. There is nothing in the users' Windows profile or regional settings to suggest 12-hour - indeed, as pointed out, rather the opposite. Everything we do within the industry must be in 24-hour.!

          JG

          Comment


            #6
            Re: 24-hour Time format

            John,

            It is the Alpha timestamp that is an issue. I don't know how difficult it would be, but if instead of using the A5_timestamp, you just used

            left(time(),5)

            you would have the 24 hour clock.

            Code:
            ?a5_timestamp()
            = "02:20 PM"
            ?left(time(),5)
            = "14:20"
            Tom

            interestingly enough, it is ther same number of characters you would have to use...
            Last edited by Tom Henkel; 07-09-2009, 02:24 PM. Reason: interesting note...

            Comment


              #7
              Re: 24-hour Time format

              Thanks Tom. I'll use that (for now .. ) !

              ... but I'm determined to try to get the timestamp to default to 24-hour - I need to lobby ALPHA, I think, to make that the default.

              Hey-ho - I just need to find and alter the 3 or 4 dozen fields and calc. fields that use the timestamp now ....

              Thanks again Tom - I should have realised as I posted that last response that I was pointing myself towards the timestamp.

              Cheers

              John G

              Comment


                #8
                Re: 24-hour Time format

                Cal Locklin (sp??) put together a really great documenter (AIMS_APP_ANALYZER) that costs very little. It will find all instances of the expression for you. It has really helped us a lot.

                Tom

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: 24-hour Time format

                  Thanks for that Tom !

                  That really will be helpful - makes me quite glad that I finally lost my rag with the Timestamp (after 6 or 7 years mind you)

                  I wonder, as 24-hour seems to be the worldwide norm/requirement, whether ALPHA may consider making the A5_timestamp() 24-hour. It is, after all, they who suggest using it to enter the current time.

                  Thanks Tom. I'll get onto Cal Locklin (sic) site now.

                  Regards

                  John G

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: 24-hour Time format

                    I look up help and look what I found:

                    Description

                    The A5_TIMESTAMP() function returns a short time value as character string, using the time format specified in the Settings dialog box ( Settings... > Preferences > Time ) section. This function is called when the user presses the Control + Shift + T hotkey in form or browse mode.

                    So I change the format to 0h:0m and see what I got:

                    ? a5_timestamp()
                    = "15:44"
                    Last edited by jaryder; 07-09-2009, 05:05 PM. Reason: typo
                    Jeff Ryder

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: 24-hour Time format

                      I didn't need to look up help for that, Jeff - but that's not the problem ....

                      My operators do not have access to the control panel, and are not going to get it for security reasons.
                      When a NEW operator uses a computer they've not been on before, how can they change it then .... ? I'm saying that on first-run, Alpha defaults the timestamp to 12-hour.

                      Why not try yourself? Disable control panel after you set to 12-hour AM/PM.
                      Log out. Log back in - use timestamp - now change the settings to 24-hour .....

                      You CAN'T without access to control panel - that's my point.

                      Anyhow, a solution has been found, thanks to Tom H.
                      I think this thread is now closed.
                      JG

                      ( I still think that ALPHA are remiss in setting default timestamp to 12-hour - should be 24 ... ! )

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: 24-hour Time format

                        I guess my point was that when I set the option to 24 hour one time through the control panel and then closed down alpha and restarted Alpha and went to the interactive window the a5_timestamp reported 24 hour. There should be nothing for the users to do once the format has been changed on each PC on how to report the time.
                        Jeff Ryder

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: 24-hour Time format

                          Hi John,
                          Even though you have a work-around for this (in fact the first response by Keith gave you that!), here is another that could easily be placed in the autoexec script for all your runtimes...basically right out of the help files.

                          Code:
                          'initialize the UserSettings variable
                          UserSettings.dummy = ""
                          
                          :registry.LOAD_SETTINGS("preferences",UserSettings)
                          
                          UserSettings.timestamp.format = "0h:0m"
                          :registry.SAVE_SETTINGS("preferences",UserSettings)
                          Mike
                          __________________________________________
                          It is only when we forget all our learning that we begin to know.
                          It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.
                          Henry David Thoreau
                          __________________________________________



                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: 24-hour Time format

                            Maybe it just me, but we here in the US also have a 24hour clock in Alpha.
                            Tom, I agree. While it's a bit of a long shot, did you know that the regional setting for date and language will also permit you to specify that Windows (XP) display times using a 24 hour clock? I was curious whether changing Windows to a default time format that used a 24 hour clock would help, reasoning that maybe Alpha looks at the windows format for its own default. Made sense to me (at the time anyway).

                            Regards,

                            -- tom

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: 24-hour Time format

                              I do see your point Jeff, and that's ok if each operator uses the same PC each time they log on BUT, (see my earlier post) it does change back to 12-hr (trust me on this) if a NEW operator uses a PC that he/she has not used before.

                              We have approx 30pc's running 4 different Alpha databases. We have 50+ operators (with frequent staff turnover). 30 x 50 permutation, then have to change again when staff leave/new ones start. ...? You see my need for a simpler way to change this automatically ... ?

                              Fortunately, Mike C has just provided me with the means in the latest post. I knew there had to be a way via a script which could be incorporated in the autoexec. or on a button to be run my the shift supervisor, who also has nil access to control panel.

                              That should do what I need Mike - many thanks.

                              John G

                              Comment

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