Selwyn: Why haven't more IT pro's heard of Alpha?

[Steve Wood]

Re: Selwyn: Why haven't more IT pro's heard of Alpha?

I also come from about ten years building applications using DataEase, went to all their conferences, totally involved like I am with Alpha now. My corporate experience was building a large Telecommunications Management system for state and city government, starting with DOS and through their Windows versions. That product is mostly idle today, sitting at www.smartpremise.com.

If you know DataEase you know what happened to that company (Sapphire Inc.). They lost ALL support from all of their developers because they went in to the business of building applications themselves, in direct competition to the Developer base, who they continue to snub. They shipped most of the work to Russia for 1/10th the cost. 9/11 happened and DataEase was in the right position to capitalize - e.g., they built the management system for the NYC Coroners office. But that's just a side note. DataEase was just sold off recently and Sapphire Group is now 100% a custom application development shop, hardly using the DataEase product at all.

The Developer community fell apart (except for PLM Corporation, which had always provided the backbone of the Independent Developer community.) All of the rest of us left DataEase; I went to Alpha Five. DataEase is all but forgotten now.

Anyway, that is just backdrop to what I wanted to say. I think Alpha's true potential is with the Independent Developer - there are thousands of us in every pocket of the world. If each of us did one small thing consistently, towards making Alpha more popular, more understood in different settings (education, IT, corporate, etc as mentioned above), we could change the "Alpha Who" syndrome.

That it is something we discuss at IADN (click logo below).

[vellj001]

Re: Selwyn: Why haven't more IT pro's heard of Alpha?

Hi Steve

Agree 100% with you.

Alpha is a very powerful product. I just wish that I took the decision to move over to Alpha long ago.....

i have already managed to build the first app, and found this forum to be a great source of info -- many thanks to all the contributors.

regards
josef

[Pureeman]

Re: Selwyn: Why haven't more IT pro's heard of Alpha?

I agree with many of you but........Excel is the database of choice for many businesses. They have out sourced their programming and the in house IT people are basically there to maintain the current software and keep up the hardware. Specialized applications are rarely developed in house.
The challenge in my company is to get the spreadsheet user to a real relational database. We have all these elaborate Spreadsheets that are cumbersome and the same data has to be re entered.
Budgets are tight so we have create our own solutions
Goggle just about any subject and you will find some type of excel template.
Alpha is not familiar because most people don't what a database is or are daunted just thinking about it. I find that IT people ( no offense) are locked into their own programs which they need to defend and control.

Filemaker is marketed to the Excel user. Web apps like Dabble are also marketed to the Excel User.
End users don't usually buy Access because it's bundled in the Office package. I believe Alpha is in error if they decide to market to programmers alone.
I have owned and used tons of Database apps from - Object vision thru Approach. Alphafive is the best.

[compuaid]

Re: Selwyn: Why haven't more IT pro's heard of Alpha?

I've been developing database applications for 25 years, starting with dBase II and moving through Foxbase and FoxPro and I now have several vertical apps written in Visual FoxPro. I've also done numerous projects in Visual Basic, VB.Net, Access and I have one vertical that runs on Linux in Filepro. I used Alpha for a couple of DOS projects back in the mid 80s and I hadn't really revisited the platform until Version 8. Based on reviews that I saw in PC Magazine and head-to-head comparisons against FileMaker Pro I decided to reinvest myself into the Alpha world and I've been amazed at how easily I've been able to develop some professional quality applications that would have taken significantly longer using Visual Studio and ASP.Net, my current platform of choice for web applications. In less that two weeks with the Alpha 10 beta I've been able to complete and market two applications to clients that, when they saw the apps, purchased them immediately to the tune of almost $10K. That's a pretty hefty return on investment and something I haven't seen with any of my other development environments in terms of turn-around from idea to market. I agree that Alpha is an outstanding product without a solid market. I felt the same way in the early days of FoxBase+ moving away from dBase. In that situation the better technology ultimately won the battle but it took being taken over by a company with a head for marketing. It would be great to see Alpha be able to take its place as a front-runner in the database environment with programmers without having to yield the wonderful availability that we currently have of the Alpha design team. Once Microsoft took over FoxBase the community was basically along for the ride. With Alpha I've already seen that suggestions are not only listened to but implemented. Kudos to the Alpha development team and now lets throw some weight behind the Alpha marketing and instructional content teams to assure Alpha survives and flourishes as it deserves to based on technical merit.

[seaken64]

Re: Selwyn: Why haven't more IT pro's heard of Alpha?

2. Better training/tutorial/reference materials (ie., Getting Started guides through to Advanced Programming and Development guides)
3. Better organization of knowledgebase -- think MSDN. The information in this forum is excellent, but a more formalized repository is needed

Glen

Why don't we start a Wiki? I've never done it but from what I understand it will allow a dynamic interchange of information. For instance, if a help file does not have enough detail the wiki participants could elaborate and share all the detail needed and thoroughly explain the concepts. The wiki could be linked to the forum, even allowing the search mechanism to point to wiki articles in addition to forum posts.

How difficult would this be to implement? Some PHP? Maybe we should encourage a knowledge database be created using Alpha Five, complete with associated Forum and Wiki. I don't really know how to implement this type of thing but I'm sure some people here do. Will Alpha Software donate the server space for this, as they do with the Forum?

Sean

[Steve Wood]

Re: Selwyn: Why haven't more IT pro's heard of Alpha?

There already is a user/developer-supported Wiki started, installed and near ready to reveal. It is part of IADN. Server space is already taken care of. I'll be inviting others to participate building it.

[seaken64]

Re: Selwyn: Why haven't more IT pro's heard of Alpha?

There already is a user/developer-supported Wiki started, installed and near ready to reveal. It is part of IADN. Server space is already taken care of. I'll be inviting others to participate building it.

Great! Will this wiki be public or only for developers who are a part of IADN? How will people find it from Alpha Software's pages?

[Steve Wood]

Re: Selwyn: Why haven't more IT pro's heard of Alpha?

1) public, 2) probably won't.

[jjfcpa]

Re: Selwyn: Why haven't more IT pro's heard of Alpha?

I've been developing database applications for 25 years, starting with dBase II and moving through Foxbase and FoxPro and I now have several vertical apps written in Visual FoxPro. I've also done numerous projects in Visual Basic, VB.Net, Access and I have one vertical that runs on Linux in Filepro. I used Alpha for a couple of DOS projects back in the mid 80s and I hadn't really revisited the platform until Version 8. Based on reviews that I saw in PC Magazine and head-to-head comparisons against FileMaker Pro I decided to reinvest myself into the Alpha world and I've been amazed at how easily I've been able to develop some professional quality applications that would have taken significantly longer using Visual Studio and ASP.Net, my current platform of choice for web applications. In less that two weeks with the Alpha 10 beta I've been able to complete and market two applications to clients that, when they saw the apps, purchased them immediately to the tune of almost $10K. That's a pretty hefty return on investment and something I haven't seen with any of my other development environments in terms of turn-around from idea to market. I agree that Alpha is an outstanding product without a solid market. I felt the same way in the early days of FoxBase+ moving away from dBase. In that situation the better technology ultimately won the battle but it took being taken over by a company with a head for marketing. It would be great to see Alpha be able to take its place as a front-runner in the database environment with programmers without having to yield the wonderful availability that we currently have of the Alpha design team. Once Microsoft took over FoxBase the community was basically along for the ride. With Alpha I've already seen that suggestions are not only listened to but implemented. Kudos to the Alpha development team and now lets throw some weight behind the Alpha marketing and instructional content teams to assure Alpha survives and flourishes as it deserves to based on technical merit.

Brad

My experience mirrors yours. I've been using VFP ever since the 2.5 version and currently have a number of apps that are commercially available. One in particular, is currently in it's 24th release. Because it's a tax related application, it requires annual updates. It's multi-client, so one accountant can use it to process an unlimited number of clients data.

One of the things that made VFP so popular is the applications that could be developed using it. In my opinion, if you want Alpha Five to get noticed, then the emphasis has to be on the applications that can be developed with it.

Microsoft never acted like it wanted to promote VFP, just steal it's technology and add it to its other products. Consequently, even though I have an application that is written in Visual Foxpro and used by over 25,000 users, no one at Microsoft ever cared enough to talk about it.

I've already seen that Alpha appears more willing to promote some of the things that it's developers are doing with A5 based on postings on the blog and in some of their promotional emails. This is a step in the right direction and the IADN that Steve and others are starting provides a more professional appearance for those who want to use A5 to create applications.

There are some inherent differences between the way we create our applications in Visual Foxpro, and I'm hoping that given enough time, I can find a way to adapt our approach to the way applications are created in A5.

[NicholasWieland]

Re: Selwyn: Why haven't more IT pro's heard of Alpha?

My company is not going to relie on Alpha for letting the "IT" Community know about it's features and usefulness. We are holding webinars for our customers and anyone who wants to join them so we can show off the capabilities and plant the seeds of fruitful though as to how projects could be used by them for the future.

As an example I have a large Valvoline Distributor whom we provide other Applications for (Our Mobile Order Entry Solution) I know that they have needs and that we can fulfill them with using Alpha to connect to there UNIX system.

So we met with the IT Chief and demo's some things and that seed will bare fruit for us. Plus that fact that I can also show him we are a member of a group like IADN will care weight for him and us. I know he will be impressed with the Alpha Five Great Applications Project - Registry at IADN.

Nicholas

[Robin Hoare]

Re: Selwyn: Why haven't more IT pro's heard of Alpha?

I'm an amateur aged 75, with some background in Visual Basic and before that in standard basic (anyone remember the Commodore C64?). So what I have to say is somewhat off the target, but is concerned with the general popularity of the product: if people like me can use it, knowledge of Alpha Five may trickle up!
I find Alpha 5 fascinating and enjoy making forms look right! (I do desktop publishing and design too). The price is right, too.
But the educational material isn't as helpful as I would wish. AlphaSports may be a good demo of the capabilities of the product but it is totally overwhelming to the beginner. I was a college lecturer and high school teacher before I retired, and the essence of good instruction is KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) So it would be much better to start with a tiny application: say, a database of a private CD or DVD collection, and work up from there. The learner should build it from scratch, with accurate step-by-step instructions. Perhaps there is instructional material of this kind but I haven't seen it.
Visual Basic comes with thick properly printed books, Controls Reference, Language Reference and Component Tools Guide (two of them are raising my monitor to the level I like!) and in these days of cheap small run printing (heard of Lulu?) there is no excuse for not having decent documentation available. I have had to print out all I can find and put it in big file covers.
I have to agree about spelling: eg. it's CALENDAR not CALENDER, which is something quite else.
I wish Alpha 5 every success but like others here I believe that there are issues to be addressed for the product to achieve its target.

[MikeC]

Re: Selwyn: Why haven't more IT pro's heard of Alpha?

Hi Robin,

I agree regarding AlphaSports---too much for a beginner and I think it adds to the confusion most times....a much more basic approach with NO assumptions of knowledge is needed.

But,

there is no excuse for not having decent documentation available. I have had to print out all I can find and put it in big file covers.

I have to disagree with in that there is a very legitimate excuse in my opinion....the help file becomes almost 20,000 pages when printed. Imagine the cost then! I could not imagine even trying to use such a hard copy.

[Tbaker]

Re: Selwyn: Why haven't more IT pro's heard of Alpha?

Mike and Robin

From a beginners standpoint, learning any new language is a daunting task even with a good help system.

Back in the EARLY days of dos (Robin I started out coding games on a Commodore 64 - from publications such as PC world Etc.) there were a lot of publications for computer newbies to begin with, to digest the complexities of a computer language - computers were new and anyone who had one tried to absorb information from every source. I remember buying Basic 7 from Microsoft and the box that came with the software (floppy disks) was huge - it held three volumes of help in binders. (quite daunting)

Today, most, if not all help comes in a file with a CHM extension. The problem that we have all encountered with CHM's is that you nearly need to know the function etc that you are looking for to find the help to encode the function. Just try a search for a5.system_mode_set() and see that the help file only shows 8 modes that can be set - however, if you look at the function in interactive and use control down to enumerate the modes that can be set, there are over 140 modes that can be set. Daunting to say the least since there is no place in the help file that gives information on what they are and what the settings should be.

I think that what we all are saying in differnet words and phrases is that the help file system that is in use for Alpha Five may be 20,000 pages long but there are things there that are out of date - not well explained - just downright hard to find or simply just wrong. Mike I believe you outlined on this forum how you use the help file and it is a very good procedure to follow. But I am sure you as well as a lot of folks have spent considerable time looking for something and never could find it. (thank goodness for the message board).

What we really need is the complete overhaul of the help file - make it more intuitive (apply Jim Chapman's progressive lookup:D) -

I agree with you that the help file is great when you find something but it does not go far enough - too many "what's new items" never make it to the help file except in the what's new section. What's new in version 7 should have been placed in the regular help file for version 8. What's new in Version 8 should have been placed in the regular help file for Version 9 and so on.

There were some very good ideas posted in this thread - a thread which has taken right and left hand turns through the many posting - it is not only convincing the IT pros that Alpha is a viable and strong and can handle most everything thrown at it - it is necessary to get Alpha in the hands of the educators in the colleges and universities. Alpha has to go to them and offer them the seminars and workshops - an even give them the software to work with. I don't know the ages of every one of this forum but I know there are a lot of us seniors. Just think if we have taken to Alpha, there are a lot of fertile minds in our colleges and universities - a great place to maket a product like alpha.

Alpha is a very strong product - I can attest to V10 and its no code Ajax - I have never gone the web route (wasn't interested as an in house programmer since we were not going to the web) but I started playing around with the new capabilities in V10 beta and I was doing things that I never thought I would do - I am really excited by the new direction that Alpha has undertaken and you know the thing that really got me was that I did all of this testing using what was given in the videos and the genies. No I don't have a web app ready to go and probably won't for quite some time since I am now a "newbie" to this frontier and starting out again just as I did many years ago with alpha, letting alpha write the code.

I will still be strong believer in the desktop arena but I can see that only being a small portion of the data world (mostly because of privacy issues).

I guess when you come right down to it, we are all on the same wave length. We all want Alpha to succeed. Coming from VB and Access, alpha is the winner hands down in my book. (I still use VB occasionally but I have given up on access).

Just my two cents worth.

Tom Baker

[Robin Hoare]

Re: Selwyn: Why haven't more IT pro's heard of Alpha?

Yes Tom, the books with VB are big but they are useful. Each volume is 1000+ pages.
There doesn't seem to be an easy way for a rank newbie to find out easily what is a combo box in Alpha 5, for example - it rather assumes previous experience on some other program. For example, you don't NEED to type into a type-in field: it could be calculated! A slightly misleading name.
Perhaps there are 20,000+ pages in HELP but the essentials can be covered in much fewer, I believe. I find that I need to print out many help files in order to use them: perhaps if I had two monitors it would help! Overlapping windows can be tricky.
At my local technical college you can learn about databases: guess which one they use! As long as this is so, Alpha 5 has a hard row to hoe. And I would find it hard to sell a course in Alpha 5 if I were still a lecturer.

[MikeC]

Re: Selwyn: Why haven't more IT pro's heard of Alpha?

Tom,
I couldn't agree more with virtually everything you stated! :)

I remember reading a post by Edward Larrabee (he did most/all of the documentation I have read) mentioning, I think back in 2004 or earlier, that Alpha was at that time having a hard time keeping up with new features, much less than being able to correct and add to what was already there. Now that he is gone, the help has pretty much not been updated at all.

I think Alpha is depending upon this messageboard and its more learned members to make up for the lack of a complete and accurate help file....I have noticed an ever increasing amount of questions that pertain specifically to the inadequancies of the help file in that these questions would NOT be asked if the help was updated. Meaning that unless there are more and more Alphaholics in the coming years that will spend their time answering these sort of questions, Alpha will then be very difficult for newbies to learn...I would prefer Alpha to come up with a way to cure this lapse which is already becoming very large.



Robin,
As I believe the chm help is now also downloadable as a pdf, what is there to stop you or anyone else from printing out what they need? Just curious really.