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Thread: v10 Desktop Features

  1. #1
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    Default v10 Desktop Features

    Anyone heard anything regarding the Status of v10 Beta Features? The end of the month is approaching fast. At the conference the end of the month was given as a target release date, with transformed into the end of Sept. 10 days out and not much mention of Desktop features. Whats Up???
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    Volunteer Moderator Peter.Greulich's Avatar
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    Default Re: v10 Desktop Features

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenMcLean View Post
    Whats Up???
    My guess is that there are always more issues to resolve than expected - especially at the last minute. Alpha's optimistic announcements represents their generally upbeat assessment of an impending major release. I know they are working very hard to get this product to market. It will get there.

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    Default Re: v10 Desktop Features

    Several features, notably the new browse have not been released into beta. I keep checking the blog and downloading the updates.

    There is still plenty to absorb.

    I think the end of the month will go by without the release. We shall see.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: v10 Desktop Features

    Hi Peter, I do understand these issues. My concerns arise from current claims differing little from the ones last April. v10's release seems to always be a couple weeks out. Had I realized at that time v10 was "VapourWare", I would have sourced a development tool that existed. Now after spending 6 months learning Alpha (with a great deal of help from the people here), I may need to re-evaluate my choice of development platform. I have projects that will not wait any longer.
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    Default Re: v10 Desktop Features

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenMcLean View Post
    Hi Peter, I do understand these issues. My concerns arise from current claims differing little from the ones last April. v10's release seems to always be a couple weeks out. Had I realized at that time v10 was "VapourWare", I would have sourced a development tool that existed. Now after spending 6 months learning Alpha (with a great deal of help from the people here), I may need to re-evaluate my choice of development platform. I have projects that will not wait any longer.
    Hello Steven,

    I've seen this discussion before. You're best bet is to use v8 or v9.

    V10 isn't vaporware. Nor did you mention if you were developing for the desktop or the web.

    There are some that are developing AJAX web applications with it now. Steve Wood pointed out that he was developing with a web app with AJAX.

    There are many new features for the desktop but nothing that would keep you from developing your code now.

    I do appreciate your concern on the release date. I'm just as concerned with the product being solid when it is released.

    You may be further along the learning curve than I am. I still find that I have plenty of baby steps to work through. Other than AJAX, it doesn't make much difference whether it is with v8, v9 or v10.

    Regards,
    Greg Wood

  6. #6
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    Default Re: v10 Desktop Features

    Hi Greg, my apps are solely for the Desktop. The new desktop features were less that I was expecting. Using the Grid over the browse is however make or break, along with another few things. As v10 Desktop does not appear to be in beta yet, it is indeed VapourWare.
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    Default Re: v10 Desktop Features

    VapourWare means the product does not exist at the time of the announcement, and most likely will not be developed, "deception" in a word.

    Since half of us are testing the beta, and even building product in V10Beta, I'd call it DedicationWare, Alpha is Dedicated (with a capital "D"), and the product will be delivered. I know that from their track record. I know from the fact that I email their staff at all odd hours of the night and they respond that hour with on-the-ground facts about my specific issue, be it V9 or V10. That is, they are working on it.

    A lot of us who have been around for a while don't sweat the delay on final release. It always has taken longer than expected, and always comes out better than expected too -- and frankly we like that tradeoff. Some individuals may fall by the wayside if their project needs some specific feature only available in that new release, but most, as noted below, can get total satisfaction from V9. V10 is like Nirvana satisfaction.

    If I were in your shoes, and I really needed that feature for my product I would consider doing three things: 1) build the entire product but leave out that feature until it is available, 2) send an email to someone* at Alpha and ask if you can have an advance of that feature because you really, really need it. They will probably make it available, and definitely 3) describe here exactly what you are trying to build - I bet we can help you build what you want.

    *I can suggest who in a PM if you describe what you need.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: v10 Desktop Features

    Hi Steve, are you saying you have an actual v10 beta, and not v10 features enabled in v9. As I understand v10 Desktop features are still not available.
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    Default Re: v10 Desktop Features

    I have what everyone else has, the Desktop features are present, or at least the few I just looked for. I did not check them all, but the Grid in an Xdialog control is present and works as in the video.

    I wouldn't know, but I think the "v10 features enabled in v9" is the V10 beta and the final will be cut from that. That just makes sense, I don't know if it is true. But having experienced several release cycles, it always goes the same way. And since there are several videos showing off new V10 Desktop features, I would have to say those features all exist and so it cannot be charactorized vaporware. Unless, of course, those guys did a 180 from everything they have stood for since I met them, and are getting real good at Photoshop.
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    Default Re: v10 Desktop Features

    As far as I am aware none of the desktop features depicted in the various videos are available for testing within the beta. Hopefully they will be switched on very soon.
    Bob
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  11. #11
    Volunteer Moderator Steve Wood's Avatar
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    Default Re: v10 Desktop Features

    I went back through the videos - some of them are in the beta, some are not. The Toobox, Treeview and Cascading Dropdown and Grid in an Xdialog were all present. Al tells me the new debugger is present, and that he loves it. I've never seen the old debugger, relying on trial&error.
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    Default Re: v10 Desktop Features

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Wood View Post
    I went back through the videos - some of them are in the beta, some are not. The Toobox, Treeview and Cascading Dropdown and Grid in an Xdialog were all present. Al tells me the new debugger is present, and that he loves it. I've never seen the old debugger, relying on trial&error.
    Yeah. A while back I did try some of the new desktop features - including the MUCH improved debugger. A lot of the stuff is already there. Not sure about the status of the browse though.

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    Default Re: v10 Desktop Features

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenMcLean View Post
    Using the Grid over the browse is however make or break, along with another few things.
    Well, if grids are what you are after, you can develop those in the beta. They work great. Haven't checked to see if the xdialog grid insert feature has been implemented yet.
    =====================
    EDIT: Yup, she's there. Haven't tested it though.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: v10 Desktop Features

    In a recent post from Selwyn the following was stated:

    "the v10 beta testers are only testing the new web features in a5.

    they are working in the v9 codebase with certain v10 features turned on.

    the v9 codebase has the old browse in it."
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    Default Re: v10 Desktop Features

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenMcLean View Post

    the v9 codebase has the old browse in it."
    I thought you said "grid"?

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    Default Re: v10 Desktop Features

    A badly planned project will take three times longer than expected - a well planned project only twice as long
    A Quote from Dr Elisabeth Kapsammer in a Document evaluating software for project management published by the Johanses Kepler University of Linz
    Cheers
    Mauricio


  17. #17
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    Default Re: v10 Desktop Features

    I am taking a class next week on "How to complete the last 10% of your project" (seriously). The class will run 90 minutes with 2 hours allotted for questions.
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    Default Re: v10 Desktop Features

    That class seems interesting because that last 10% sometimes takes the same time It took you to complete the first 90% (Im in thats situation right now :o)
    Cheers
    Mauricio


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    Default Re: v10 Desktop Features

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Wood View Post
    I am taking a class next week on "How to complete the last 10% of your project" (seriously). The class will run 90 minutes with 2 hours allotted for questions.
    It's like spending 90% on your developer's time dealing with exceptions of 'happy flow' functionality. While the core needed functionality only needs 10% effort.

    Maybe instead of functionality and customer acceptance, let you projects by driven be money and/or time boundaries and let your customers decide what they are willing to give up given those time / money bounderies. Learning to say no / accepting no may also help.

    In my recent experience an agile scrum approach to development is certainly better in managing the last 10% of your project definition.

    I am very interested in your evaluation of the course and what you learned from it.

    And hope the course leader manages to stick to the 2 hour limit for questions.
    regards, Ron

  20. #20
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    Default Re: v10 Desktop Features

    Some of the desktop features are present in the Beta. One desktop feature I have been waiting for is the headers & footers feature in a form.

    I have a project that requires this feature and I have been unable to figure out how to do this in V9.

    Maybe some confusion could be alleviated if the about screen and the splash screen would be updated to "V10 Beta".

    Also some documentation would be GREATLY appreciated.

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    Default Re: v10 Desktop Features

    Quote Originally Posted by 411tech View Post
    Some of the desktop features are present in the Beta. One desktop feature I have been waiting for is the headers & footers feature in a form.
    I believe that's in the beta.

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