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.DBF Databases in V-10

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    .DBF Databases in V-10

    I am looking for more info on Alpha's built in database. Some examples in addition to Alpha Sports. I read the info on the online help. This was a good start but leaves me with lots of questions.

    From my amateur perspective it seems that some of the linking features in the V10 grids can duplicate some of the function that a database set previously accomplished. Why would you need a set relationship if you can Link related grids? Is there some mix of the two? Did the older grid linker
    affect your choice of using a set verses linked grids? If you mix in the option of a view from multiple tables than its starts to become a little confusing.
    Many ways to skin the same cat?

    I read Database for Mere mortals. This was a great book and gave me a general understanding of a relational database.

    I am interested in building web apps I presume that the database is the foundation. I have some more complicated relationships to structure than customer, invoice, item.

    I wanted to start with .dbf and get a grasp of alpha's database before tackling sql.


    Is there any good resources out there either in book form, video or on line? If you can answer a couple of my question or suggest some educational resources it would be appreciate.
    Tks
    Bob

    #2
    Re: .DBF Databases in V-10

    Bob,
    Fair Question
    The old relational database model is really quite out the door with Alpha V10, mainly because you can cause a relationship on demand with the various grids and Ajax components, the Codeless Ajax TM aspects of V10 make this even more the norm, this is basically progress running over convention.

    You are probably used to using �files� now �tables� in Alpha Five and creating a relationship at that level, remember where this come from, digital space both RAM and storage was indeed a at a premium in the initial days of hierarchal relational databases, well like the pyramids, we just don�t need them anymore, we related to small numerical fields as they conserved digital resources.. GONE, Alpha does relate and does link tables by common data in one table with another, but not at table level, it does it with data of any numerical or character and size does not matter, so break free � think what do I want to achieve, then use the new tools V10 provides to get you there.
    Alpha Sports is very detailed but is will (in my own view) slow you down in understanding fundamentals as you will try to reverse engineer.

    Bob, like every revolution everything is different.

    Post your questions, get help along the way, you will find a new world emerge.


    Peter
    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
    Albert Einstein, (attributed)
    US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)

    Comment


      #3
      Re: .DBF Databases in V-10

      Peter,
      Thank you. Thats what I was feeling. Your reply has me seeing clearer. I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. Relationship on demand makes sense. It enables a lot of flexibility. Possibilities seem to be endless.
      Can we keep V10 a secret, kinda like the nights templar. At least until we amass a large treasure.
      Tks

      Comment


        #4
        Re: .DBF Databases in V-10

        Originally posted by bob9145 View Post
        Why would you need a set relationship if you can Link related grids?
        Sets are still completely relevant to the desktop. Grids are germane to the web. Of course, v10 now allows grids to be implanted in forms, but most people may still want to rely on sets for desktop use. Sets are also necessary for reports on the web side, unless your report is based upon a single table.
        Peter
        AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

        [email protected]
        https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


        Comment


          #5
          Re: .DBF Databases in V-10

          Just a plug for Sets on the web. I just used a Set on the web using this function:

          set.external_record_content_get() and it was lighting fast compared to the silly looping I was trying to do to get the list of the last table seven one-to-many connections deep in the set. I was really impressed. I was able to set a filter at any node and get the record list of the last table based on the tree between that node and the last table. If any of that makes sense.
          Steve Wood
          See my profile on IADN

          Comment


            #6
            Re: .DBF Databases in V-10

            7 levels deep of one to many relationships!!!
            that means X^7 (in a symmetrical scenario) . If each record was to have just 2 records in the next level you would en up with 128 records on the last level for each record on level 1, is alpha actually handling that OK? wow
            Cheers
            Mauricio

            Comment


              #7
              Re: .DBF Databases in V-10

              Seems like I hit a nerve. Tell me more. Tell me more.
              Can't the grid genie be engineered to be able to access a set? Its kinda like a view isn't it?
              Tks

              Comment


                #8
                Re: .DBF Databases in V-10

                Originally posted by bob9145 View Post
                Can't the grid genie be engineered to be able to access a set? Its kinda like a view isn't it?
                No & No. A grid is like a table, although you can make your grid be a view, which allows 1:1 viewable relationships. On the WAS, you can duplicate the set paradigm using row expanders, linked content sections and linked grids (and maybe a couple of others).
                Peter
                AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                [email protected]
                https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: .DBF Databases in V-10

                  Alpha has been around a long time. Apparently it started with a relational database model based on DBF tables (files). Sets were a means of joining those DBF tables together.
                  Then the web era came. DBF sets can not be used with those. I always regretted that, but :

                  Then with web grids it was made possible to create a grid based on a view (like An SQL select statement joining tables together). It works only with your defined grid and both with DBF (i think) and SQL tables. You will have to define the view each time for a new grid.

                  Then grids could connect to SQL databases. Views defined at the SQL DB level will appear as tables in your grid defintions. You could even update via SQL DB views if your particular DB system allows it. Web Grids can also be based on joins (select statement defined at the grid level) defined as part of the grid definition.

                  Basically you have following levels of data which can interact with web grids:
                  DBF: Tables and sets
                  SQL: Tables , views (pre defined joins at DB level) and joins (select statements joining tables on the fly at grid definition).

                  So Alpha web grids can work with:
                  DBF: tables and grid defined joins, but not sets (Use grid defined views or SQL defined joins or views for those.)
                  SQL: tables, joins and views.

                  Alpha's sets based on DBF tables can not be accessed via web grids (unless you use Steve Woods method...)

                  Web grids can be linked together (via Data used in the grids) in V10 using several methods, like the one Peter mentions.

                  Another method you could explore is using MAPPED TABLES.

                  Important question is : Which relationship between tables needs to reside on the DB level and which is needed only for the presentation level? for the first use DBF sets and SQL views. For the second use grid defined views or at grid level defined joins.

                  The thing I regret which has not been ported to V10 (yet) is the (Tabbed) grid linker. This made it possible to link previously defined grids as a separate grid component leaving the original grids intact for separate use. In V10 you can link grids but the main grids definition is defined just like that (although there is a parameter to control whether it should use the linked version or not I think). When you use it, it will expand the underlying grids also always. I hope separate (tabbed) grid linker grids will be re-introduced in V10 and not be made obsolete. The expand feature is not completely similar as defining a (tabbed ) grid linker component.

                  regards, Ron

                  Last edited by rleunis; 10-22-2009, 02:44 PM. Reason: typing errors

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: .DBF Databases in V-10

                    Much appreciated. A best practice model would probably be in order. Especially for a beginner. There are so many ways to accomplish the same thing.

                    Tks

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: .DBF Databases in V-10

                      Originally posted by rleunis View Post

                      The thing I regret which has not been ported to V10 (yet) is the (Tabbed) grid linker. This made it possible to link previously defined grids as a separate grid component leaving the original grids intact for separate use. In V10 you can link grids but the main grids definition is defined just like that (although there is a parameter to control whether it should use the linked version or not I think). When you use it, it will expand the underlying grids also always. I hope separate (tabbed) grid linker grids will be re-introduced in V10 and not be made obsolete. The expand feature is not completely similar as defining a (tabbed ) grid linker component.
                      Hi Ron,

                      I don't understand exactly what you are saying. I could be wrong about this, but the Grid Properties -> Linked Grids/Content 'Has linked Grids or other content' is the replacement for the old grid linker. Not sure what about this is different (or perhaps deficient, as you seem to suggest) than the new one, which is AJAX powered?
                      Peter
                      AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                      [email protected]
                      https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: .DBF Databases in V-10

                        Hi Peter,

                        With the old tabbed grid linker you basically created a new component which linked the grids together. The original grids stayed untouched and could be used separately. With the new method you include the linking in the master grid via settings of the linked content section. This master grid (with linked content) can therefore not be used without the linked grids.

                        I hope this makes sense.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: .DBF Databases in V-10

                          Originally posted by rleunis View Post
                          This master grid (with linked content) can therefore not be used without the linked grids.
                          Ok, got it! I guess to me that seems fairly insignificant. You could just duplicate the grid and then remove the link from the copy. But, I understand, more file maintenance, more clutter, etc.
                          Peter
                          AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                          [email protected]
                          https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: .DBF Databases in V-10

                            Yes you could do it like that, but I just loved the way the tabbed grid linker could link everything together without affecting the building blocks...

                            With the good old tabbed grid linker you could make a multi level component in which underlying grids also where linked to lower level grids..

                            Of course this can also be done with the new link feature, but these sub level masters can then also not be used as stand alone grids.

                            Also the tabtext could be manipulated via html (F.i. making the selected tab standout. I did not find a method for this using the new V10 method.

                            Bad thing about the V8/V9 tabbed grid linker was the poor performance. With the new AJAX this has been greatly improved. Where one of my old V9 tabbed grid linkers took 10-12 seconds to load, via the new ajax V10 link method it displays within a second. Also because the new method uses what I call "lazy loading" (It only loads the tab selected - if not selected earlier).

                            Another thing: The graphical representation of how the grids were linked together with the old tabbed grid linker I am missing also.
                            Last edited by rleunis; 10-25-2009, 03:10 PM.

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